PoH = BWHoPL?

[Smile]

Just a question on this, has it been verified how they are called in the Japanese version of KH1? Because if ever they were called 'Being with Heart of Pure Light', the english translation could have altered it into 'Princess of Heart' for fitting the mouth of the character speaking, and now throwing us in confusion. Just wondering.

They're called Princesses. Minus the "of Heart".

 

[Audo]

In Japan, I believe they are referred to just as "The Princesses" but I could be wrong.

EDIT: Darn you, SA.

 

[Smile]

In Japan, I believe they are referred to just as "The Princesses" but I could be wrong.

You're not. I sat with a friend through the second half of KH1 on FM scenes on youtube and other assorted sources. Specifically the scene with Maleficent and Riku.
It's just "Princesses".

EDIT: Darn you, SA.

 

[gelandporn]

I wasn't doing anything of the sort, I'm just trying to look at it from a logical standpoint. The point is, we don't know how he found out about the Princesses because it only came up randomly. As i said, it could have been a legend of sorts, but that isn't to say that the BWHoPL had to follow that legend exactly.

There's no logic in trying to dismiss Xehanort's sources because it's as good as questioning the source for anyone.

Did you not pay attention to Tron's world? He said that he believed it was Ansem, but then he went on to say that Ansem was his enemy too, because the Ansem he knew wouldn't have created the DtD, or brought back the MCP or put a password onto it. That's was hinting that it wasn't Ansem the Wise who did those things, but Xemnas after he had booted Ansem out. Meaning it was Xemnas who brought back the MCP, and passworded the DtD. Not Ansem.

lol, add in a little extra did you? He said the Ansem he knew wouldn't have uploaded the MCP (a different Ansem, ie Xehanort). He did NOT say anything about the DtD or the password.

 

[Audo]

There's no logic in trying to dismiss Xehanort's sources because it's as good as questioning the source for anyone.

Well, then, I'll question the source for everyone.

lol, add in a little extra did you? He said the Ansem he knew wouldn't have uploaded the MCP (a different Ansem, ie Xehanort). He did NOT say anything about the DtD or the password.

Xemnas, not Xehanort.

 

[gelandporn]

Xemnas, not Xehanort.

That's up for debate. It all depends on when the MCP was uploaded.

But the point was that Xemnas did not change the password.
And the point of THAT was that the password consisted of the names of the 7 princesses, meaning that Alice was considered a PoH before she was born.

Meaning we have our 7 princesses. 7 beings with hearts of pure light.

 

[Audo]

Xemnas was the one who banished Ansem. I truly doubt that Ansem would allow Xehanort to add a program that he himself chose not to add when Ansem still had control over Xehanort.

And I still believe Xemnas changed the password. Not Ansem. I would label Ansem idiotic if he were to do so.

 

[x-X-Riku-X-x]

this is a littl of topic about the pasword but, sorry if im late, but has anybody considerd that the poh are like royalty among bwhopl. like maybe here are the same type of beings but higher upas they are born for a purpose and not just born with a pure heart, that birht theory also shows why the pasword would be the same if they were meant to be born with higher meaning maybe they were known about eailier

 

[gelandporn]

Ok, going by pure logic then...

Let's say Xemnas DID change the password, despite there being no evidence that he did whatsoever.

The logic is that Xemnas would have changed the password right after he got rid of AtW, right around that time when he went to open the Room of Sleep. That is still well before Alice would have been born. And the password has Alice's name in it (we know it's all 7 of them because Sora, Donald, and Goofy lists the names off to Tron).

 

[Audo]

Ok, going by pure logic then...

Let's say Xemnas DID change the password, despite there being no evidence that he did whatsoever.

Well, the fact that the DtD, once unlocked already had information on Nobodies and the Organization seems to suggest that it certainly wasn't of Ansem's doing since he was completely clueless about them until after being banished. Also, if Xemnas could so easily go into the DTD and add this information, it really makes Ansem the Wise seem like a complete idiot for choosing a password that his apprentice already knew the answer too. I see it being more logical that it was Xemnas who set that password, but I suppose you're right in saying that we have no concrete evidence to say he did, besides logical assumptions.

The logic is that Xemnas would have changed the password right after he got rid of AtW, right around that time when he went to open the Room of Sleep.

You mean, when he went to build the Room of Sleep - don't you?

That is still well before Alice would have been born. And the password has Alice's name in it (we know it's all 7 of them because Sora, Donald, and Goofy lists the names off to Tron).

Unless of course he really didn't fiddle around with it until later on. If he knew Ansem the Wise was gone, what use would there be to password protect the DtD?

Another possibility I could see was if he didn't password protect the DtD until just before he and the other members of the Organization left Hallow Bastion in favour of TWTNW. Then it would make sense for him to password the DtD so that who ever came to the castle after him (e.g. Maleficent) wouldn't have access to it. But again, this is simple guesswork.

 

[Wehrmacht]

They have to be pretty close to the same thing, at the very least.

 

[3-D]

isn't it possible that Xehanort's heartless could have changed the password? Why is Xemnas so special?

 

[Audo]

Xemnas is the one who banished Ansem, and took control over RG.
Xehanort's Heartless was nowhere near RG.

 

[gelandporn]

Well, the fact that the DtD, once unlocked already had information on Nobodies and the Organization seems to suggest that it certainly wasn't of Ansem's doing since he was completely clueless about them until after being banished. Also, if Xemnas could so easily go into the DTD and add this information, it really makes Ansem the Wise seem like a complete idiot for choosing a password that his apprentice already knew the answer too. I see it being more logical that it was Xemnas who set that password, but I suppose you're right in saying that we have no concrete evidence to say he did, besides logical assumptions.

The information is "corrupt" though. I really don't know what to make of that.

You mean, when he went to build the Room of Sleep - don't you?

The Room of Sleep... the underground laboratory where we were studying
the darkness within people's hearts... the place that Ansem ordered us
to seal away. The first thing Xemnas did when he got rid of our wise
yet bothersome leader was to release the seal and to make that room
within the depths of our laboratory.

I think by "make," he's referring to the Nobody decor and what not, but it was already there.

Unless of course he really didn't fiddle around with it until later on. If he knew Ansem the Wise was gone, what use would there be to password protect the DtD?

Then why would you be bringing this up in the first place? You're the one who suggested that he changed the password.

Another possibility I could see was if he didn't password protect the DtD until just before he and the other members of the Organization left Hallow Bastion in favour of TWTNW. Then it would make sense for him to password the DtD so that who ever came to the castle after him (e.g. Maleficent) wouldn't have access to it. But again, this is simple guesswork.

Beats me as to why he'd even bother leave the computer running in that case.

 

[.Oji]

Heh. I like how some people are throwing around "Alice doesn't exist in BBS..." as if it's truth.

I'm fairly positive Alice will appear in BBS as a seven year old girl if necessary. Why?—Aging for Disney characters isn't of the norm. There's no clear reason as to why—they just don't age normally. Perhaps 'time' is different per world; some worlds having very long days/years whilst some short, which WOULD affect how one ages.

As for 'Xemnas changing the password', that's news to me. Was it ever unequivocally stated that he did such a thing? I must have missed it.

 

[Audo]

The information is "corrupt" though. I really don't know what to make of that.

Me neither, point is though that Ansem was clueless about that stuff, so that was of Xemnas' accord.

I think by "make," he's referring to the Nobody decor and what not, but it was already there.

The room was not already there. Xemnas made the Room of Sleep in the back of their laboratory. Xigbar even stresses this later on when he says "The other place - that is what he is seeking. That room, which was not made by Xemnas."
The Room didn't exist until Xemnas made it.

Then why would you be bringing this up in the first place? You're the one who suggested that he changed the password.

I'm saying he didn't change it to later, and that later, would help in the case of the Alice thing.

Beats me as to why he'd even bother leave the computer running in that case.

Because the computer was still needed in order to access the Room of Sleep? I doubt he would destroy it or whatever have you if he still intended on going down there on occasion.

Heh. I like how some people are throwing around "Alice doesn't exist in BBS..." as if it's truth.

I'm fairly positive Alice will appear in BBS as a seven year old girl if necessary. Why?—Aging for Disney characters isn't of the norm. There's no clear reason as to why—they just don't age normally. Perhaps 'time' is different per world; some worlds having very long days/years whilst some short, which WOULD affect how one ages.

KH2 showed us that one year = one year everywhere.
Nomura has said that he loves the fact that BBS takes place 10 years in the past because it meant all the worlds went through a time shift, and he was so happy about injecting a Young Herc into the mix. I think it's clear all worlds age the same.

 

[gelandporn]

Me neither, point is though that Ansem was clueless about that stuff, so that was of Xemnas' accord.

And it has no correlation to a password.

The room was not already there. Xemnas made the Room of Sleep in the back of their laboratory. Xigbar even stresses this later on when he says "The other place - that is what he is seeking. That room, which was not made by Xemnas."
The Room didn't exist until Xemnas made it.

He explicitly says that the room was there. The RoS was their underground laboratory, and it was sealed away. What Xemnas "made" pertaining to the room isn't clear, but the room itself WAS there.

Because the computer was still needed in order to access the Room of Sleep? I doubt he would destroy it or whatever have you if he still intended on going down there on occasion.

We have no clue what the extent of the computer's use was. As far as we know, it could have only been used to unseal the room, as Xigbar said, so that it could be used by the Organization.

Whatever. It really doesn't even matter, you can believe what you want in that respect, I'm not even sure why we're debating this.

There is no proof (and no evidence) of Xemnas changing the password no matter what logic you present. For all intents and purposes, we can only assume for the time being that the password for the computer now is the same as it was back then.

And as you said, the PoH were referred to right after BbS. And we know Alice wasn't suppose to be alive back then.

 

[Audo]

He explicitly says that the room was there. The RoS was their underground laboratory, and it was sealed away. What Xemnas "made" pertaining to the room isn't clear, but the room itself WAS there.

No. He says the laboratory was there. Which it was. They built that laboratory on Ienzo's advice. When Ansem found out what they had been doing there, he ordered them to seal the entire laboratory off. When Xemnas banished Ansem, the first thing he did was get rid of the seal and then make the Room of Sleep in the depths of the Laboratory. It is very clear that Xemnas MADE the Room of Sleep, and that it wasn't there before Xemnas released the seal and made it. That's why the RoA is seemingly important because it is a room that Xemnas didn't make.

We have no clue what the extent of the computer's use was. As far as we know, it could have only been used to unseal the room, as Xigbar said, so that it could be used by the Organization.

You do realize that the RoS =/= the Lab right? They are two completely different things.

There is no proof (and no evidence) of Xemnas changing the password no matter what logic you present.

There's nothing to say he didn't either.

For all intents and purposes, we can only assume for the time being that the password for the computer now is the same as it was back then.

Silly you. We already know that the password for the computer "now" isn't the same as it was back then. ;]

And as you said, the PoH were referred to right after BbS. And we know Alice wasn't suppose to be alive back then.

"Right after" would be incorrect. Besides, they aren't even referred to as the PoH. All he says is "assuming that the Princesses and the Keyblade are connected".

 

[.Oji]

KH2 showed us that one year = one year everywhere.

Yet Disney characters show no signs of physical aging. Perhaps it's just a Disney thing, which if that's the case, Alice can rightfully appear in BBS.

Nomura has said that he loves the fact that BBS takes place 10 years in the past because it meant all the worlds went through a time shift, and he was so happy about injecting a Young Herc into the mix. I think it's clear all worlds age the same.

I didn't catch the 'time shift' nor the 'Young Herc' part. I know he said something about introducing worlds based off of older Disney films, but that's about it. Link me to the interview where he said he wanted 'Young Herc' to appear, please.

 

[Audo]

Yet Disney characters show no signs of physical aging. Perhaps it's just a Disney thing, which if that's the case, Alice can rightfully appear in BBS.

I think there is a clear difference between the age of a child and that of the other characters we see go through the year difference. Of course the other character dont go through a noticeable difference, but it could be akin to the same reason that all of the FF characters didn't change (with the exception of clothes) the point is, we just haven't seen a Disney child character in KH1 and then the same character in KH2 to discern a difference. It could be treated quite differently in that case. Since the time does affect all of the characters, if someone can't physically exist in the past then that does present an issue regardless of "Disney magic" to the other character's appearances.

I didn't catch the 'time shift' nor the 'Young Herc' part. I know he said something about introducing worlds based off of older Disney films, but that's about it. Link me to the interview where he said he wanted 'Young Herc' to appear, please.

Bleh, so much work. Let me look for it.