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This discussion continues from here,as it is off topic to that thread.
First, I said the Soul Eater is a Keyblade according to one source, then somepeople said it isn't. This thread is about thistopic.
And how does that refute what I said? Mobile calls it a Keyblade, and no source calls it "not a Keyblade", therefeore Mobile isn't contradicting anything, and the Soul Eater is a Keyblade until Square Enix or Nomura refutes the claim.
A Keyblade is a type of sword. Xigbar even calls it a "key-shaped sword" (鍵型の剣, kagi-gata no ken) in KHIIFM, and Days calls the Oblivion and Way to the Dawn"swords". Plus it releases pink hearts in Days.
Second, according to Days the Dream Sword is a Keyblade, and it doesn't have a loop for a keychain.
Third, the main identifying feature of a Keyblade is the ability of releasing hearts, so it doesn't matter how they look. We have seen Keyblades lacking teeth (Fenrir), handguards (Umbrella), and keychains (Keyblade Graveyard), so why is it so difficult to accept that a Keyblade may lack a loop?
Mobile's status as non-canon only means it can't refute canon, and its claim of Soul Eater as a Keyblade doesn't contradict anything.
Source? The first game doesn't show how Riku obtained the Soul Eater, and giventhat coded reveals he met Ansem at Destiny Islands, I'd rather think ithas something to do with him, since he wields a double-edged version of it, or that he obtained it himself.
Though, out of all the things you listed, it's only ever called "key"and "sword". Xigbar calls them "key-shaped swords" and Days even callsthe Oblivion and Way to the Dawn swords.
And anyway, Xehanort said Keyblades are man-made, so there must be a process in which they are made. For all we know, Ansemnort could have cheated this process and given Riku the ability to summon his Keyblade before it was complete.
Mobile calls the Soul Eater a Keyblade, nothing explicitly contradictsit, and it releases pink hears in Days, the one game that depicts the difference between freed and non-freed hearts. That's my evidence and is mentioned in the link I posted.
Anyway, the entire point of a Wiki is that any available person can add info in order to complete the site, and the fact that anyone can edit is exactly (I think, there may be other reasons) why Wikis have admins: To prevent them from becoming a mess. I'm an admin in Digimon Wiki, and sometimes I have to clean false claims like "T.K. married Kari in the Japanese version" or someone claiming that Gabumon is a Canine-type Digimon when all the sources say it's a Reptile-type, and even if a source saying any other type shows up, it wouldn't invalidate the reptile-type because we were never told types are exclusive.
Pretending Wikis are inherently less accurate than any other compendiums of information is as valid as saying a Physics book is inaccurate because it isn't the actual experiment or wasn't written by the one who made the experiment. Sure, Wikis aren't the official sources, but they have (and if they don't, they should) citations listing the sources, which are exactly meant as a means for people to check if the info is correct or not.
I honestly don't know what being spoonfed or not has to do with the discussion when Nomura has spoonfed us that Riku and the King couldn't cross the door, which he himself said was already implied in the game.
What? Dude, these weapons were never called Keyblades. I'm only using "nothing says it's not a Keyblade" as evidence to show Mobile's claim isn't contradicting anything, and thus there's nothing refuting it.
The what? The Soul Eater is called a sword in Mobile, never stated to not be a Keyblade in any source, and releases pink hearts in Days, the only game to ever show a visible differentiation between Keyblades and non-Keyblades killing Emblem Heartless, and it become the Way to the Dawn. It is literally a form of Riku's Keyblade.
Also, did you think that maybe, just maybe, the Keyblade only happens to look like his chakrams? Aren't keychains implied to be formed from memory (i.e. Nomura stating Sora lost all his keychains when entering Castle Oblivion)?
Have you read the full discussion? One of the guys kept saying over and over that it was never proved that only Keyblades can release hearts, even after being told it was. Plus, in the end of the discussion, the ones saying the Soul Eater is not a Keyblade admitted being wrong.
First, I said the Soul Eater is a Keyblade according to one source, then somepeople said it isn't. This thread is about thistopic.
You're arguing semantics.
A Keyblade is a sword but a sword is not a Keyblade. They are intrinsically different because of the Keyblade's nature as a whole. Soul Eater is not a Keyblade because it does not unlock hearts, release hearts, free hearts, unlock doors or keyholes. It is just a sword.
And how does that refute what I said? Mobile calls it a Keyblade, and no source calls it "not a Keyblade", therefeore Mobile isn't contradicting anything, and the Soul Eater is a Keyblade until Square Enix or Nomura refutes the claim.
A Keyblade is a type of sword. Xigbar even calls it a "key-shaped sword" (鍵型の剣, kagi-gata no ken) in KHIIFM, and Days calls the Oblivion and Way to the Dawn"swords". Plus it releases pink hearts in Days.
I would argue it's a plot hole/continuity error, or that Days's gray hearts are a retcon.I'm too lazy to look up videos for photo proof that they do (it is rare that they show SDG defeat any normal heartless on-screen since you play as them),but that doesn't change the fact that people like Leon & Cloud are shown releasing hearts when defeating Heartless. Would you like to argue that their weapons are Keyblades as well?
First, how do we know it not being a normal Keyblade would affect itsappearance?It also isn't a normal Keyblade. The loop really doesn't matter, though.
Second, according to Days the Dream Sword is a Keyblade, and it doesn't have a loop for a keychain.
Third, the main identifying feature of a Keyblade is the ability of releasing hearts, so it doesn't matter how they look. We have seen Keyblades lacking teeth (Fenrir), handguards (Umbrella), and keychains (Keyblade Graveyard), so why is it so difficult to accept that a Keyblade may lack a loop?
Kingdom Hearts Mobile.What is this officially published source?
What do you mean it's not a source? If it's not fan made,then it's automatically a source.Mobile is not a source.
Mobile's status as non-canon only means it can't refute canon, and its claim of Soul Eater as a Keyblade doesn't contradict anything.
Then you can look up info here.The service doesn't even exist anymore.
Maleficent gave Riku Soul Eater.
Where do you think shegot her hands on an "incomplete Keyblade"?
Source? The first game doesn't show how Riku obtained the Soul Eater, and giventhat coded reveals he met Ansem at Destiny Islands, I'd rather think ithas something to do with him, since he wields a double-edged version of it, or that he obtained it himself.
The Oblivion and Way to the Dawn are also called swords in Days.It also doesn't say that the soul eater IS a keyblade either. In fact everygame the soul eater is featured in it is referred too as a sword.
This isn't even arguing semantics. Yes the keyblade can be used LIKE asword but it can also be used like a wand to channel magic and it can evenchange into other forms and be used as a cannon or blaster guns, hell you caneven turn it into a vehicle anduse them as transport.
And, staying true to the name, they also serve as keys allowing one to opengateways to other worlds, seal any door/lock, they also free capture hearts andthey even have power over normal door and chest locks.
They are the ultimate master key.
To consider the keyblade as just a key-shaped sword is to ignore all the otherfunctions it possesses. The keyblade is many things, not JUST asword.
Though, out of all the things you listed, it's only ever called "key"and "sword". Xigbar calls them "key-shaped swords" and Days even callsthe Oblivion and Way to the Dawn swords.
It only states that the heart must be proven for it to manifest, it doesn't state the Keyblade doesn't exist before then. And how does that prove that incomplete Keyblades can't manifest somehow?Nor is the soul eater a "incomplete" keyblade. Keyblades manifest before their wielders, they dont exist in any physical state until they first appear to their wielder, which we learned in the DDD glossary:
And anyway, Xehanort said Keyblades are man-made, so there must be a process in which they are made. For all we know, Ansemnort could have cheated this process and given Riku the ability to summon his Keyblade before it was complete.
Again, Days depicts the difference between these and has theSoul Eater freeing hearts.This only helps my case not yours. By showing that EVERY weapon frees a heart,it's just that the keyblade makes sure it doesn't reform as a heartless later.
And that link is in no way a viable source of information.
Unless it comes from the mouth of nomura himself or the games it is nota viable, reliable, or even remotely useable source of information.
The only viable sources of information are nomura and the games as they are themain sources of all information in this series.
And unless you can find something IN THOSE sources to back your claims your not gonna be taken seriously and only meet with the resistance you've been shown because nobody will accept it as truth.
Mobile calls the Soul Eater a Keyblade, nothing explicitly contradictsit, and it releases pink hears in Days, the one game that depicts the difference between freed and non-freed hearts. That's my evidence and is mentioned in the link I posted.
I'm glad you retracted the claim that Wikis have more fan speculation than fact, because that kind of claim without some kind of backing up by demonstrating multiple Wikis full of speculation is ludicrous. Also, this prevents the snarky comment I originally intended to make.The link you posted is neither of those things and on top of that it's from awikia which is an entirely USER EDITED fan site.
Which means it's as unreliable as the thousands people that edit the place.
Anyway, the entire point of a Wiki is that any available person can add info in order to complete the site, and the fact that anyone can edit is exactly (I think, there may be other reasons) why Wikis have admins: To prevent them from becoming a mess. I'm an admin in Digimon Wiki, and sometimes I have to clean false claims like "T.K. married Kari in the Japanese version" or someone claiming that Gabumon is a Canine-type Digimon when all the sources say it's a Reptile-type, and even if a source saying any other type shows up, it wouldn't invalidate the reptile-type because we were never told types are exclusive.
Pretending Wikis are inherently less accurate than any other compendiums of information is as valid as saying a Physics book is inaccurate because it isn't the actual experiment or wasn't written by the one who made the experiment. Sure, Wikis aren't the official sources, but they have (and if they don't, they should) citations listing the sources, which are exactly meant as a means for people to check if the info is correct or not.
Not everything has to be explicitly stated for things to be true. We should never expect to always be spoonfed with information, thus we will need to makeuse of gift of thought to perform analyses, connect the dots, and arrive at conclusions.
It's no different in this case.
I honestly don't know what being spoonfed or not has to do with the discussion when Nomura has spoonfed us that Riku and the King couldn't cross the door, which he himself said was already implied in the game.
In addition, that there's no source that calls it "not a Keyblade" isn't really a substantiated claim to support your cause on its own.
I can even say that it's a flawed reasoning. Going by that, I could alsosay that everyone in the series are dead since it has never been said that theyare not. Or rather, more relevantly to the topic, I could also say that Leon'sgunblade, Cloud's sword, Goofy's shield, Donald's staff, and the Organizationmembers' weapons are all Keyblades because it has never been said that they arenot Keyblades, but we know that it isn't true.
What? Dude, these weapons were never called Keyblades. I'm only using "nothing says it's not a Keyblade" as evidence to show Mobile's claim isn't contradicting anything, and thus there's nothing refuting it.
The Keyblade-sword relationship doesn't work both ways. A Keyblade is a sword indeed, but not all swords are Keyblades. Therefore, you can't say that non-Keyblade swords are Keyblades, the way you can't say non-canid animals are canids or non-strawberry fruits are strawberries.
It simply isn't that black-and-white.
The what? The Soul Eater is called a sword in Mobile, never stated to not be a Keyblade in any source, and releases pink hearts in Days, the only game to ever show a visible differentiation between Keyblades and non-Keyblades killing Emblem Heartless, and it become the Way to the Dawn. It is literally a form of Riku's Keyblade.
Unlike the Soul Eater, they were never called a Keyblade anywhere, and releasegray hearts in Days.I understand it's tempting to think that the it is a Keyblade since it is used as the design basis of the Way to the Dawn, but being an object that the Way to the Dawn was derived from doesn't necessarily mean that the Soul Eater aKeyblade itself.
For example, consider Lea's Keyblade. It was derived from his chakrams, butwould you say that his chakrams are a Keyblade?
Also, did you think that maybe, just maybe, the Keyblade only happens to look like his chakrams? Aren't keychains implied to be formed from memory (i.e. Nomura stating Sora lost all his keychains when entering Castle Oblivion)?
If using the sources and evidences to prove a point is forcing your beliefsinto others, then yeah, the Digimon Wikia tries to force you to believe thatAgumon can evolve to Centarumon by providing a citation to the source wherethis happens.And what's in that link doesn't really look like a discussion to me. It lookslike a one-man war in which this particular person tried to force his or herbelief to others.
Have you read the full discussion? One of the guys kept saying over and over that it was never proved that only Keyblades can release hearts, even after being told it was. Plus, in the end of the discussion, the ones saying the Soul Eater is not a Keyblade admitted being wrong.