The heart that is released after death is probably a captive heart that created the heartless that was destroyed, or possibly a heart consumed by that specific heartless while it was currently in the world.
Souless?
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doomweasel
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Okay people, instead of just saying "NO YOU ARE SO WRONG!!! YOU ARE VERY WRONG!!" (looking at you, .:K:.) please give some valid evidence. Yes, it says in Ansem's report that the soul remains with the body, but look at these lines here:
"Certainly when the heart changes into a Heartless the body disappears.
However, that is only this world's story; in another world, mightn't they change forms like the Heartless and exist there?"
Only the BODY is mentioned; it is ASSUMED that the soul is included in the first sentence. Also, in the second line it says, "Mightn't THEY change forms..." This sentence is extremely ambiguous - what is Ansem referring to when he says "they?" The body? The soul? Both? It isn't known. Any conclusions drawn are drawn from your own, pre-existing assumptions.
Thus nobody can use these sections of Ansem's report to prove anything. You are all equally valid and invalid.
"Certainly when the heart changes into a Heartless the body disappears.
However, that is only this world's story; in another world, mightn't they change forms like the Heartless and exist there?"
Only the BODY is mentioned; it is ASSUMED that the soul is included in the first sentence. Also, in the second line it says, "Mightn't THEY change forms..." This sentence is extremely ambiguous - what is Ansem referring to when he says "they?" The body? The soul? Both? It isn't known. Any conclusions drawn are drawn from your own, pre-existing assumptions.
Thus nobody can use these sections of Ansem's report to prove anything. You are all equally valid and invalid.
That may be so but dont you fit into this category? Because you you're self are also trying to draw coclusions of what the report is talking about.
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doomweasel
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No, actually I'm not. I am not claiming that Ansem is talking about souls or bodies or what the definition of a shell is. I do not believe that there is enough evidence to draw a valid conclusion either way. I am only stating that Ansem's report is ambiguous, which it is. It can be used to support the Dusk=souless theory or debuke it, depending on what one's paradigm is.
Very good I'm glad you understand the situation at hand; And I must admit the posts above have gotten a little out of hand, however they are no longer relevent. Whats done is done.
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doomweasel
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Very good. Now, I WILL post what I personally think of the Dusk=soulless theory. If you think about it logically and disregard the Ansem reports and that debate over what a "shell" is, this theory makes some sense. I mean, if heartless were the main nemesis of the first game, it's reasonable to conclude that soulless would be in the second game.
But then again, this is disregarding Ansem's reports. I probably shouldn't do that, but the simplicity of the theory appeals to me nonetheless.
But then again, this is disregarding Ansem's reports. I probably shouldn't do that, but the simplicity of the theory appeals to me nonetheless.
slayerofsoras said:1. The heartless are made from the bodies of those who lose their hearts. They cannot be made from hearts because they are called the HeartLESS . They devour hearts , and in doing so ,make more heartless
2. A nobody is a being of light and dark, most likely the hearts of people who lose their hearts, but regain them. This would make Riku and Sora Nobodies.
3. I have no idea what a dusk is. It is most likely the Artificial heartless Ansem mentioned creating in one of his reports.
Okay , there is my theory. 50 points to the first person to shoot it down!
1. When a heart plunges into Darkness it becomes a Heartless. When a heartless steals a heart it becomes a heartless.
2. A nobody is Twilight. Riku and Sora aren't nobodies. And nobodies aren't hearts. They are shells without hearts. Sora can wield the keyblade and has a physical appearance. He is not a nobody. Riku isn't a shell. Because Ansem is the darkness in his heart, which CoM confirms.
3. Dusk aren't Heartless or artificial heartless. They do not bear the Artificial Heartless symbol.
I win!!! *recieves the 50 points*
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CEDELAS
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cmon whom seriusly cares but i think the dusk could be made by the organization as why else would they go to hollow bastion they must be there for ansems machine that could explain how that huge army of heartless we saw in the tgs trailer got there
Souls aren't even important to the KH storyline. And you people keep worrying about crap. Dusk = Light turning into Darkness or Twilight. As we know Shells are Twilight. Shells are NEOs or Nobodies which are Twilight and Dusk have been referred to NEOs and Nobodies too. Marluxia rides a Dusk in CoM. Marluxia is a part of the Organization. The Organization are shells. Shells are twilight. Dusk were first seen in Twilight Town. The Organization's headquarters are in Twilight Town. The Organization are shells.
If you follow the pattern you get the same thing. THE ORGANIZATION MOST LIKELY CREATED THE DUSK SINCE MARLUXIA RIDES ON ONE and they all have so many connections together. AND SOULS DON'T FIT INTO THE CONNECTIONS. DUSK AREN'T SOULESS. GET OVER IT.
Very good for recieving that 50 points! (curse you, KL!)
Okay, if the heart taken from a victim turns into a heartless, you still have a body left over, and a soul anchored to that body. That "shell" is without memories and emotion, since memories reside in the heart. But it still has a soul ,as mentioned in Ansem R 13, so it can still function. It is "you" as in your body but not "you" as in your soul, making it nobody.
Yeah, I just solved the mystery!
Okay, if the heart taken from a victim turns into a heartless, you still have a body left over, and a soul anchored to that body. That "shell" is without memories and emotion, since memories reside in the heart. But it still has a soul ,as mentioned in Ansem R 13, so it can still function. It is "you" as in your body but not "you" as in your soul, making it nobody.
Yeah, I just solved the mystery!
YES! YES YOU DID!!!!!!
*gives you a million points*
*gives you a million points*
(spends points on booze and cheap whores)
But this dosent explain anything about the Twilight, or the Dusks.
Or the BHK, or the role of the Organization...
But this dosent explain anything about the Twilight, or the Dusks.
Or the BHK, or the role of the Organization...
So Dusks can be the shells of the heartless and maybe BHK is a shell.
We really dont know ANYTHING about the BKH, except that he can use Keyblades and is looking for Sora. I agree with you, I also think he is Sora's shell.
And here is my proof.
When Sora lost his heart, it (Sora's Heart) became a heartless and his Shell was floating in darkness. Kairi restored sora, but I think that she might have just restored his memories, and Sora became a being of only the heart, like Ansem did in Report 12 or 13( I forget which one). If Namine is Kairi's Nobody, she should have the memory powers too. But what happened to that body? That body might have become the BHK , or the Superior, or DIZ( I think he is Ansems body, but you never know) .
But, my thoery falls flat on one point, Ansem needed to posess Riku to have physical form, if what I said is true then Sora needs a body and since there is noone for him to possess, my theory doesnt hold water.
Crap.
And here is my proof.
When Sora lost his heart, it (Sora's Heart) became a heartless and his Shell was floating in darkness. Kairi restored sora, but I think that she might have just restored his memories, and Sora became a being of only the heart, like Ansem did in Report 12 or 13( I forget which one). If Namine is Kairi's Nobody, she should have the memory powers too. But what happened to that body? That body might have become the BHK , or the Superior, or DIZ( I think he is Ansems body, but you never know) .
But, my thoery falls flat on one point, Ansem needed to posess Riku to have physical form, if what I said is true then Sora needs a body and since there is noone for him to possess, my theory doesnt hold water.
Crap.
starting this thread only made me more confused..... but wat i gathered from it is that the Dusk are probably beings made by the Organization....
Sora is n1 said:
NO THEY CAN'T.
The BHK is not a shell or else he wouldn't be able to wield the keyblades.
Namine is not Kairi's shell or nobody.
Yes u are finally starting to understand
um...am i invisible?*pokes random person*but humor me. though i do understand your well-thought out theroys, i feel there is no difference between heart and soul. (by ignoring me i feel you have lived up to your names as insolent fools....)
OMG!!! i really am invisible aren't i ?!?! *pokes random person-random person yells at me* HALEIGHLUJAH!!! now that my crysis is over, answer me you insolent fools!
http://www.kh2.co.uk/image.php?image=tgs1.jpg - - - - - notice the blue lights down the side.... almost looks like ppart of a machine, not a living thing... im sticking with my previous conclusion... beings [man]made by the organization
sorry for double posting,(though i did wait an hour, ppl!) EdSquareCat, your theroy makes many sense to me, and still no one has answered my question...i will wait...
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