Film ► The Little Mermaid Live Action Remake

[Elysium]

We don't know what Ariel looks like in the live-action movie yet; we've only seen her actress. So there is still time to reserve judgement.

You're right. And she sings really well and she's gorgeous. I think the initial news just hit me wrong because TLM is my favorite film and B&tB and Aladdin were so much like their originals. I hope they give Ursula purple makeup, too.

 

[CutiePique]

[sighs and throws another log on the fire]

So, I'm not even someone who is down with Disney's live action remakes (for clarity, they mostly just rub salt in my wounds that they're not making traditionally animated films anymore) but honestly, imo yadda yadda, when it comes to casting Ariel:

I've listened to her singing voice. She's a good singer and I'm sure her acting capabilities will be just fine. People are just overreacting per the usual.

[...] Halle Bailey is a talented singer and it is not unbelievable that a casting director would think she fits the role.

^ That's genuinely all that matters as far as matching important character traits is concerned. Ariel sings. She sings gud. Super gud. Everyone thinks and says this in the animated movie. So if Disney strat for this feature is "repeat what we did decades ago", this is the thing that needs matching. Because of all the Disney princesses singing forlornly about wanting more, Ariel's the one that neeeeeeds to not need auto-tuning. Hair color and skin tone? Eh, they don't need to be the same as before for Ariel's story. They're not plot-related.

[mumbles] Again... as someone who will continue not seeing these movies in theaters or doing anything beyond renting them from her local library if she has the time in the future. [sigh] why am I even bothering...

 

[DarkosOverlord]

But I just want to point out that a lot of aquatic life have a variety of skin coloring so perhaps read up on marine biology?

My point was about human skin.

No offense, but that was probably one of the most pointless discussions I have witnessed on this forum, and I've been here for quite some time. If we're really going to get into the details of whether a casting decision makes sense scientifically and all that stuff, we would be sitting here for 5 years dissecting countless movies. I think it only matters when it's appropriate and things like that are pointed out in the movie -- in TLM, it is not important.

The melanin argument is bogus. They’re fictional characters based mythological creatures and they can be whatever color the filmmakers deem appropriate for the story they want to tell.

But since people want to over analyze:

While the original film doesn’t explore Triton’s heritage, in both Greek mythology and the stage version of the Little Mermaid, he’s the son of Poseidon and Amphitrite, a god and goddess. As such, they could have easily taken the physical form of people of color when they conceived Triton. Thus making Triton a merman of color as which he could pass his skin color on to Ariel. Also, in some of the Greek myths, Triton’s home is located off the coast of Libya. So it would make sense geographically for him to be a POC.

Let me just say this last thing, then I'm done. I kind of half knew this was a mistake in the first place, but since I do have problems not saying things due to panic and anxiety, I wanted to give it a shot regardless.

I really regret the confrontational aspect that resurface any time something like this comes up.
This wasn't my main argument about the movie or anything. You keep calling it like that. It is not.
Let me just analyze:

Movie comes out. It stars actress.
Person has no problem with actress. Person then states secondary point, just to give an input.
Response: "Person's argument is dumb and nonsensical and useless on any dimensional level."

Let me get this straight: you did nothing wrong in responding to me. I gave an input, you gave an input. Rules were not broken in any way. I can't get mad or upset (not that I am) over people responding to me in a thread, even if to disagree.
It's just, I wonder why this needs to be the interaction. We get countless digressions over the most trivial things just to overanalyze and posts that are literally there to sound self-important, but usually people who disagree don't just go and say how stupid and pointless was to make them.
Why is my side the stupidest or most pointless thing ever. Like, do we NEED to only talk about it like it's a life or death topic?
Why do you get to decide what's important or not to me.
Why do I get the "weeeeelll, since mister over here wants to analyze, how about we put him in his place" attitude.

Didn't say the movie will suck. Didn't say Halle Bailey sucks. Didn't even say they don't need to touch or alter the original movie in any way, or that there are ironclad rules preventing them for doing so.
Like, I acknowledged the fictional aspect of mythological creatures of it in my first post, and yet it's being repeated to me constantly like I'm unaware of it.
I'm starting to lose the point so I'll just say it: me stating what counts towards a better immersion for me isn't me stating that these are the only "correct" things that need to happen. Since I'm not doing that, I don't get the haste in needing to shut down what I say as dumb and nonsensical.

Of course, I can't just say that like I don't know what's up and what's different from other instances. Racism is horrible and people seem to invent new ways to try and be racist without openly say it every day.
Talking about these things can be unsettling, and for good reason. I didn't have any sort of stake in this, so I could've just avoided it.
I'm sorry if I upset anyone. All the more reason to shut up then: it's pretty obvious no one was a fan of my contribution anyway.

I really wish you could give vocal tone to text to show I'm not offendend and I'm not trying to play the victim. I'm just regretting posting in the first place since this was met with such opposition.
Next time, I just won't say something like that in the first place. I think it'll be for the best.

 

[LostArtist]

I come back to see other people pretty much repeating how I feel about this whole argument, saying similar things to what I have said. And the likes are getting to me because I'm kinda weird like that, and I've never felt so .__.

I feel like it's pointless for me to keep going on this so I'm done
I'll stand by how I feel, that's all

 

[FudgemintGuardian]

Just out of curiosity, what would be an "honest, genuine issue" that is not based on racism of some kind? I'm really trying to get behind why anyone would not be okay with this other than "evil black people taking my fictional mermaid from me!!1!!1!1"
White erasure simply isn't a thing while black erasure absolutely is (which is the reason why people would RIGHTFULLY be mad if a black character were turned white) and I can't fathom how being mad at a non-white Ariel could not be racism in any way.
So please, anyone in this thread, educate me, because to me, all issues scream "I HATE BLACK PEOPLE".

Well, if when Tifa appeared in the trailer she was shown as a blonde, your first thought would have likely been "Who's that?" or "Is she meant to be Tifa?!" All of what goes into a character design has importance. Hair color, skin color, what clothes they would were, etc. When a characteristic is changed, it affects our perception in one way or another, negatively or positively. I mean like, say how in real life, if someone you've known, without warning, suddenly has a drastic change in appearance, we sort of get hit with the uncanny valley, and need time to process the change. And that's a perfectly normal behavior for all forms of animal life. We see something look a certain way, so we expect it to look that way.

So when a character looks a certain way, we associate that character with those looks. When that changes, we have a negative reaction. Going by this, having issue with a white-skinned character becoming black-skinned is no different than complaining about a blue-skinned character becoming orange.

The second is that White erasure not "being a thing" (yet) doesn't automatically make changing a white character into a black one okay. To think White erasure isn't a thing, so therefor it's okay, is in itself racist as its treating white people as lesser, and will become worse as long as people think that's okay. Nor is believing that to be fair okay (not at all saying you're saying that, but I've met some rather...unpleasant individuals IRL who believe this.) Complaining about a white character becoming black and vice versa should be treated equally. As that's what equality is. Saying this racism is bad but that racism is okay is not okay. Racism is racism no matter who it's aimed at.

Thirdly, as I briefly mentioned in another comment, wanting non-white characters is great and wholly welcome, but changing a pre-existing white character to non-white can be seen as a hand-me-down to some. Disney and other companies need to be willing to put in the effort to make new non-white characters instead of painting over an old one and say "here's your diversity."


Apologies if I missed any bad grammar. My comment went longer than I intended I'm too burned out to go through it.

 

[VoidGear.]

Well, if when Tifa appeared in the trailer she was shown as a blonde, your first thought would have likely been "Who's that?" or "Is she meant to be Tifa?!"

Are blonde white girls under-represented in media? No, that's why it would make no sense or have no point to switch Tifa to a blonde, because it would not have any worth for an inclusive society.

All of what goes into a character design has importance. Hair color, skin color, what clothes they would were, etc.

True, which is exactly why it's so important to make the media more accepting and, again, inclusive of all types of people, and broaden people's horizons. Media not only reflects society, but also influences it.

When a characteristic is changed, it affects our perception in one way or another, negatively or positively. I mean like, say how in real life, if someone you've known, without warning, suddenly has a drastic change in appearance, we sort of get hit with the uncanny valley, and need time to process the change.

Needing time to get used to the change is something entirely different than being hurt, upset or offended by it.

And that's a perfectly normal behavior for all forms of animal life. We see something look a certain way, so we expect it to look that way.

So when a character looks a certain way, we associate that character with those looks. When that changes, we have a negative reaction. Going by this, having issue with a white-skinned character becoming black-skinned is no different than complaining about a blue-skinned character becoming orange.

If we react negatively about one of ??? dozens of white Disney characters being black instead of white in a remake, then maybe the problem isn't the change, but our inability to think outside of the bubble.
Maybe we should look for a way to change our mind, and not voice it respectlessly.
Maybe we should understand that the reason we are feeling negatively is because of our centuries of superiority complex, and not because there's anything to feel negatively about.

The second is that White erasure not "being a thing" (yet)

You have got to be kidding me right now. Is there anything, anywhere in the history of society that even remotely SUGGESTS that there will EVER be anything like white erasure? Do you really believe that there is a chance that white people will ever allow for anyone to erase them? I am legitimately shocked at this statement.
That's the biggest slap in the face of any non-white person I can imagine.

doesn't automatically make changing a white character into a black one okay. To think White erasure isn't a thing, so therefor it's okay, is in itself racist as its treating white people as lesser, and will become worse as long as people think that's okay.

Yes, I do think we white people are less than we make ourselves out to. We pretend we are 99% of the nation, 99% of what's important, 99% of who needs a say and who needs to be featured in any type of media. And that is wrong. So, sorry, but perhaps I am one of those unpleasant IRLs (just not IRL), because I do think we've been sitting on our comfy asses for too long, accepting inequality as long as it's not inequality towards us.
Racism is so much more than "well I'm taking a piece of your cake in a bad way".
It's about whole societies excluding people based on where they come from.
It's when a pregnant woman in Alabama gets charged for manslaughter because her unborn child died when she was shot in the stomach by a man with a gun.

Complaining about a white character becoming black and vice versa should be treated equally. As that's what equality is. Saying this racism is bad but that racism is okay is not okay. Racism is racism no matter who it's aimed at.

No, it should not. Making a white character black, again, does NOT in any kind of way erase the absolute monopoly white people have on the entirety of media and our whole society as it is, and where it's come from (slavery as one very significant term that we still, as little as we like to admit it, profit from).
It's like saying making a straight character gay in a remake is as harmful as making a gay character straight. Which it is not. Groups of people who have never experienced the kind of treatment that minorities face do not get to take the little representation they have away from them.

Thirdly, as I briefly mentioned in another comment, wanting non-white characters is great and wholly welcome, but changing a pre-existing white character to non-white can be seen as a hand-me-down to some. Disney and other companies need to be willing to put in the effort to make new non-white characters instead of painting over an old one and say "here's your diversity."

I'd agree if this were about another animated installment of TLM, in which case, yes, they could instead focus on creating a new story that's inclusive. But this is about a real life adaption, so it's not only about having a black Disney princess, but about having a black woman be cast as a Disney princess. That is real. It's somehow, at least so I hope, a more graspable concept to see a real black woman in a Disney movie, and I think it's a great chance that is being used here.

 

[Pandymint]

Can I just ask why people are complaining about the skin color of a fishgirl? Now I admit, it's been probably more than 10 years since I've seen The Little Mermaid, but I don't recall her skin having absolutely any bearing on the story or her character. It's just a meaningless aesthetic.


Also here's a wild idea: This movie isn't just for those of us who grew up with the original. It's for a new generation of kids. And you know the thing about kids? They aren't gonna care that she isn't white. But little black girls will be able to look at her and say "she looks like me!" just the way I'm willing to bet red headed girls did back in 1988 when the original came out.


Plus, you know, I don't remember hearing people complaining when, for example, Jason Momoa was casted as Aquaman, who's defacto comic look is a short haired blonde white man. (I'm sure there were some, but my point is it wasn't as overblown as this is becoming.)

 

[Grizzly]

Can I just ask why people are complaining about the skin color of a fishgirl? Now I admit, it's been probably more than 10 years since I've seen The Little Mermaid, but I don't recall her skin having absolutely any bearing on the story or her character. It's just a meaningless aesthetic.


Also here's a wild idea: This movie isn't just for those of us who grew up with the original. It's for a new generation of kids. And you know the thing about kids? They aren't gonna care that she isn't black. But little black girls will be able to look at her and say "she looks like me!" just the way I'm willing to bet red headed girls did back in 1988 when the original came out.


Plus, you know, I don't remember hearing people complaining when, for example, Jason Momoa was casted as Aquaman, who's defacto comic look is a short haired blonde white man. (I'm sure there were some, but my point is it wasn't as overblown as this is becoming.)

I can agree with all of this, as well as what VoidGear said above. Skin color is rarely relative to the characters' backstories in the Disney animated film, so I'm of the belief that it isn't relevant here. It's clear that Halle was chosen for the role for her singing prowess above all else. Her voice is gorgeous, and unparalleled by most her age.

The added representation on top of that is great. All of our live action princesses have been white thus far, save for Jasmine. Now having a black and Asian princess added to that means more young girls and women have a *real* person, not just a cartoon one, in their favorite stories to look up to. The animated films have their own problems, but those characters have paved the way and the mindsets of plenty of children, and these new live action films, whether you think they should be made or not, will do the same for children today. Except this time they look like real women, and the transfer from children watching to characters on screen shouldn't be underestimated.

I think this casting is really important, and should be celebrated, not berated. Who cares if she looks different? Isn't that a basic lesson taught to the youngest of children anyway, not to cast stones upon those who are different than you? What about Captain Marvel changing Mar-Vell's gender? What about Nick Fury being black in the films, but not originally in the comics? Beast's design changed from the animated version to the live action. If none of those were issues, this shouldn't be either.

It's good to have diversity. A change in skin color should be a non-issue, and I'm happy Disney chose such an incredible actress to the fill the role. The songs in that film will forever be more important and more iconic than fishlady Ariel who lives in the ocean having pasty skin.

 

[Noir]

Apparently mermaids need to be white. Guess there was some sort of nationalist gathering undersea?

And oh no. She might not have red hair. Weep weep weep.
Let me just be realistic - nobody wants to be ginger.

Ty xoxo

 

[drew0512]

I would have preferred a white actress because Ariel has one of my favourite Disney designs (and if I'm not wrong they have been sticking to the "original" disegns in these live actions so far), but her skin color doesn't really change anything. I don't think I'm going to see this movie since I'm not really a fan of these live-actions (original projects, please?) but I hope the story is quite different from the cartoon version, 1:1 remakes are quite pointless imo.

Plus, you know, I don't remember hearing people complaining when, for example, Jason Momoa was casted as Aquaman, who's defacto comic look is a short haired blonde white man. (I'm sure there were some, but my point is it wasn't as overblown as this is becoming.)

There were a lot of complaints about Aquaman too but the difference is that Ariel is an iconic and very popular character while Aquaman was (is?) way more niche.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

I'd like to think that the Live-Action Remakes are a new reality/universe Disney is making in place of the older cartoons. There are a lot of questionable decisions that go into these remakes, that just makes me think: is it worth it? Beyond not being white, which isn't that big of a deal, what could really impact the film?

 

[Grizzly]

I'd like to think that the Live-Action Remakes are a new reality/universe Disney is making in place of the older cartoons. There are a lot of questionable decisions that go into these remakes, that just makes me think: is it worth it? Beyond not being white, which isn't that big of a deal, what could really impact the film?

Seeing your favorite characters and their storylines in a live, more relatable form. Different, officially mastered renditions of songs we've heard for decades. More detailed versions of the worlds we've seen for years.

It's just like any other art form, any cover to a song, any movie version of a novel. It gives more opportunities for people to dive into the things they love, with different interpretations of them. They don't replace the cartoons, and I don't personally see it as another universe. It's okay to have different takes on art and the originals. The first versions aren't going anywhere.

These things also print money. It's clearly a business move on top of the benefits added to the art form.

 

[Pandymint]

Well that certainly escalated. I don't have enough tea in my possession for that long of a sip.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I want all of you who have a problem with this casting to sit down and think about exactly why you think this casting is bad, then to throw that opinion in the trash where it belongs if it has to do with her skin color because Ariel’s identity was never based on her whiteness. Her hair color is nothing to even be worried about when hair dye exists and Disney has dyed the hair of various stars to fit the image they want for their characters across all of their brands.

White erasure is not a thing in a world dominated by rich white people and never will be. Until the day humanity ends or the world as we know it ends (whatever comes first), I can assure you white people will likely still be in power because of the systems they have put in place that keeps them in power in the first place.

Science has no bearing on a mythological fish-girl’s skin color. She’s a mythological fish-girl. Can people turn into sea foam or have their voices stolen? No. Can makeup be applied and worn deep under the water? No. There are a million other issues that can be taken with the science behind a merperson and their biology, ecosystem, economy, architecture, societal structure, culture, language, and so much more but the thing that is hard for people to chew is that she has dark skin? And people want to think there isn’t some internalized prejudice there?

I agree with Void and the other users. This isn’t for us adults. This is about young children, especially young black girls, having something to look at in popular media and feel a connection to. Popular media has always catered to white audiences and it is only in the last few decades that this has really started to shift to allow for more diverse media to take the spotlight. Even then, it’s usually one piece of media out of a dozen that is doing this.

And if this casting bothers you? Don’t go see the movie. Ignore it’s existence. Don’t rain on other people’s parade because you can’t self-reflect long enough to realize you are being prejudiced regardless of intent or not.

I hope all of you all will get your thoughts out because by tomorrow morning this thread will be closed and unless there is new news about the film, a new one won’t be made until then.

 

[KHRULER]

Well that certainly escalated. I don't have enough tea in my possession for that long of a sip.

I want all of you who have a problem with this casting to sit down and think about exactly why you think this casting is bad, then to throw that opinion in the trash where it belongs if it has to do with her skin color because Ariel’s identity was never based on her whiteness. Her hair color is nothing to even be worried about when hair dye exists and Disney has dyed the hair of various stars to fit the image they want for their characters across all of their brands.

White erasure is not a thing in a world dominated by rich white people and never will be. Until the day humanity ends or the world as we know it ends (whatever comes first), I can assure you white people will likely still be in power because of the systems they have put in place that keeps them in power in the first place.

 

[BufferAqua]

I haven't been on this site for a while, but I logged back in just for this thread because frankly? These discussions about Ariel's skin color are some of the most ludicrous I've probably ever seen on this website. All just because some woc actress landed a role to play a mythical fish who can sing and breathe underwater.

I'm a half-black person who grew up in a primarily black environment, so seeing these things makes me feel comfy. Not because I dislike Ariel being white or white people in general, I'm half-white too and already got that, but because part of my culture can be shared with a classic I used to love and cherish throughout my childhood years. Seriously, why is some actress being black something to be upset about? She's a goddamn mermaid.

As long as she can sing, fit the character, and excellently incorporate the iconic mermaid we all know and love to life, I can be content and happy. I don't think of politics when watching family films. 'Cuz what if... just what if... Disney hired her for her skill and an attempt to make a well-known Disney movie an opportunity to give young black girls a role model too? I sincerely don't see any negative to this decision besides society finding something to bitch about.

It's pretty sad how we still have so much racism in 2019. My little cousin got severely bullied in school just because she was black. So like, knowing that one of my favorite animated films will have a black protagonist which could hopefully not make her regret the color she was born, over some shallow idiots, would be a fantastic experience for me to show her personally.

I seriously don't even get offended much by this race shit because I always avoid, but this is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Lulcy]

Because the other mermaid thread is currently locked.

Full cast confirmed.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

I really wanted Idris Alba as Triton.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

I'm issuing a warning now: Any discussion that looks like the discussion above before the most recent cast listing will result in thread bans and site bans.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]