See, Organization XIII's trick is working on all of you!!! Well, most of you anyways. They have no hearts, and in trying to get them back, they make you feel sorry for them, and make you feel like they are feeling great sorrow, when really, they have no feelings, so they're just laughing their hollow, empty laugh...
The REAL bad guys of KH2
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Orginization XIII
as others have said, though they simply wanted to exist, their methods could deffinietly (sp?) be considered evil. the ends do not justify the means. also, i remember somewhere (cant remember where exactly, unfortenetly) that Xemnas also plotted to become a sort of god like being (i may be wrong...). and remember, they cant feel sorry for their actions. Xemnas states right before you fight him "very good, you dont miss a thing. i cannot feel sorrow. no matter what misery befalls the worlds. no matter what you think. what you feel. or how you exist!"
Maleficent and Pete were, of course, also evil. however, they sort of took a backseat to the Orginization (compared to KH1 in any case). and we must remember that they did end up saving Sora and Co (perhaps even getting killed for it, but there is no proof as of yet) right before you encounter Xemnas.
as for Sora and Co., i seriously doubt it. true, Sora did kill people that simply wanted to exist, but remeber just how they attempted to acomplish this goal. Sora simply was commiting the lesser of two evils.
which do you think is worse, Killing a few guys in order to stop them from (effectivly) killing countless people, or do nothing and later feel guilty as countless people (maybe even friends) die, knowing that you could very well have stopped it from happening? this is, i believe, an example of what is called Hero Syndrom (sp?)
with all due respect,
Merlin326
as others have said, though they simply wanted to exist, their methods could deffinietly (sp?) be considered evil. the ends do not justify the means. also, i remember somewhere (cant remember where exactly, unfortenetly) that Xemnas also plotted to become a sort of god like being (i may be wrong...). and remember, they cant feel sorry for their actions. Xemnas states right before you fight him "very good, you dont miss a thing. i cannot feel sorrow. no matter what misery befalls the worlds. no matter what you think. what you feel. or how you exist!"
Maleficent and Pete were, of course, also evil. however, they sort of took a backseat to the Orginization (compared to KH1 in any case). and we must remember that they did end up saving Sora and Co (perhaps even getting killed for it, but there is no proof as of yet) right before you encounter Xemnas.
as for Sora and Co., i seriously doubt it. true, Sora did kill people that simply wanted to exist, but remeber just how they attempted to acomplish this goal. Sora simply was commiting the lesser of two evils.
which do you think is worse, Killing a few guys in order to stop them from (effectivly) killing countless people, or do nothing and later feel guilty as countless people (maybe even friends) die, knowing that you could very well have stopped it from happening? this is, i believe, an example of what is called Hero Syndrom (sp?)
with all due respect,
Merlin326
Someone already made a thread like this a few weeks ago. There was a debate over whether Sora's actions against Organization XIII were justified or not. On that, people may have different opinions. But seriously guys, does anyone honestly believe that Sora is a bad guy?! That doesn't make any sense! We're talking about a character who constantly shows how much he loves his friends. But if he's visiting a world where someone's in trouble, he's willing to set his own agenda aside to help out! Everywhere he goes, he is making friends. Even the "loner" characters, such as Cloud or Peter Pan, the ones who prefer to do things on their own, like Sora! The only people who hate him are Malecifent and crew, and possibly Xehanort's Heartless and members of the Organization. Heck, Axel likes Sora! Riku Replica said he was a good person! Even as the real Riku was turning to the Dark Side, he still showed signs that he cared about Sora, something Malificent noted when they were in Monstro. A person simply can't be loved by that many people from so many different places, and be evil.
Yes, the Organization wants to be whole again. But let's not forget, Xehanort and the other apprentices lost their hearts because of dark experiments they were doing in the first place. Obviously we feel sorry for members like Saix, Axel, Roxas, and Demyx, because they have all expressed in different ways how much they long to be whole. We'll probably feel more sympathetic to them after 358/2 Days comes out. But the ends do not justify the means, especially if the hearts and lives of so many people are at stake.
Yes, the Organization wants to be whole again. But let's not forget, Xehanort and the other apprentices lost their hearts because of dark experiments they were doing in the first place. Obviously we feel sorry for members like Saix, Axel, Roxas, and Demyx, because they have all expressed in different ways how much they long to be whole. We'll probably feel more sympathetic to them after 358/2 Days comes out. But the ends do not justify the means, especially if the hearts and lives of so many people are at stake.
When you are dealing with two groups who are gray( Sora's group and Org. group), anyone can see them as bad guys? The fact is, the Org. were hurting and killing people to get their hearts and Sora's group was killing the Org. to protect the worlds.
I know it's sad to kill the Org. but sometimes and Sora sees it, that you have to do some morally gray things that some people will find to be bad to get the job done. If that means kill a scitar dude, then so be it. We can't always be pacifists. That way gets you killed in a gray world. You have to be gray to survive and Sora knows that.
Truthfully we all have a good(light) and evil(dark) side, it's about using them both to your advantage. And that's precisely what Sora did and why he is a truly a gray character that we need in this series.
I know it's sad to kill the Org. but sometimes and Sora sees it, that you have to do some morally gray things that some people will find to be bad to get the job done. If that means kill a scitar dude, then so be it. We can't always be pacifists. That way gets you killed in a gray world. You have to be gray to survive and Sora knows that.
Truthfully we all have a good(light) and evil(dark) side, it's about using them both to your advantage. And that's precisely what Sora did and why he is a truly a gray character that we need in this series.
actually, when you think about it, the org's mission was kinda pointless. if they had succeeded and got new hearts, they might have died from the guilt of stealing other people's hearts just so they could have there own. they know what it's like to not have hearts, so that would really hurt them to know they did that to even more people. so, by "killing" them, sora did them a favor: a less painful death.
V
V.A.T.13
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There are no bad guys in KH. Just different points of views.
Except the data battles. Thats pure evil.
Though I would like it if Kairi we're a bad guy...f*cken awesome...
Except the data battles. Thats pure evil.
Though I would like it if Kairi we're a bad guy...f*cken awesome...
V
V.A.T.13
Guest
Ansem(H)? Maybe.
Heartless? No way. D:
Heartless? No way. D:
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I'm going to have to say the Org. only because from a strictly literary point of view they were obvious made by nomura to be against sora the protagonist which would make them the antagonist,but I can't in good conscious call them evil. I wrote a long post about why they aren't a few months ago,but I don't feel like getting into it so I'll sum it up in three sentences.
1.I see this word evil being thrown around a lot when it comes to the Org, and yet KH1 Riku has never been called that to my knowledge even though he basically did to Sora and Destiny Islands what the Org. are accused of doing in KH2. So how can people call them evil and not call Riku that also?Also remember Riku had a heart(a conscious) in KH1 and still that didn't stop him from doing what he did to his home and best-friends. The Org. don't have that luxury.
2.When Roxas flat out said the Org. were a bad group Namine(The Nobody of a Princess Of Heart I might add) said, "Good or bad I don't know. All I know is that their a group of incomplete people who wish to be whole." Now why would she say that instead of wholeheartedly agreeing with Roxas after all she didn't have a memory block she remembers what happened in Castle Oblivion between her, Sora, and the Org., and yet she still wouldn't flat out say they were bad.
3. They are twilight like Riku. How can something that is neither light nor dark,but both be evil?
1.I see this word evil being thrown around a lot when it comes to the Org, and yet KH1 Riku has never been called that to my knowledge even though he basically did to Sora and Destiny Islands what the Org. are accused of doing in KH2. So how can people call them evil and not call Riku that also?Also remember Riku had a heart(a conscious) in KH1 and still that didn't stop him from doing what he did to his home and best-friends. The Org. don't have that luxury.
2.When Roxas flat out said the Org. were a bad group Namine(The Nobody of a Princess Of Heart I might add) said, "Good or bad I don't know. All I know is that their a group of incomplete people who wish to be whole." Now why would she say that instead of wholeheartedly agreeing with Roxas after all she didn't have a memory block she remembers what happened in Castle Oblivion between her, Sora, and the Org., and yet she still wouldn't flat out say they were bad.
3. They are twilight like Riku. How can something that is neither light nor dark,but both be evil?
First: the yellow haired annoying girl you're saying is Larxene or Naminé (by the term ''girl'' I guess it's Naminé but it worth asking)?
Second: there is nothing saying that Marluxia, Vexen and the yellow haired annoying girl didn't want to be whole.
Second: yes, I saw Roxas' reaction and I agree with you, but don't you think they had a kind strange (not to mention dark or evil) way just to ask Sora to help them???
aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! sora is not evil dammit!! just go look up the sora is evil thread and me and countless others will tell you why, because i don't feel like typing it again.
If you think about it, Organisation 13 arent really that bad because they actually help turn roxas back into sora. The heartless and Melificent are the real bad guys and bad women
Not really, its DiZ, Naminé and Rikusem (Riku + Ansem) that help restore the memorys for Sora.
First: I am refering to Larxene mainly because the way she acts, she could be classed as a girl. Plus I don't like her haha.
Second: Well the Org XIII wanted to be whole, but Vexen, Larxene and Marluxia were in it for there own personal gain. They only wanted power and lots of it. But you are correct, unless I suddenely jumped into there heads and analysed them I can not say if they did not want to be whole.
Thirdly: Yes it was dark, but in no means was it evil. I must admit it comes across as a evil way of acting, but there intentions are clear and they risk a awefull lot. Axel sacrifices himself for Sora and all he wanted was to see Roxas again and in some way he did.
You can't look at the Org XIII's actions as terrible, but more of a way of trying to survive. They only want what all humans and others take for granted and thats to exist, to have a purpose.
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even though Sephiroth is an optional boss, he was making Cloud hurt emotionally and thats bad because hes sora's friend. also, Sephiroth is even tougher than any Organization XIII member, hes could also be a bad guy i suppose.
but still. the Organization and its members are the real bad guys.
:closedeyes:
but still. the Organization and its members are the real bad guys.
:closedeyes:
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It actually depends on point of view. If you look through the Nobodies eyes Sora is the real bad guy, soo it just depends on the point of view :/
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