Too much KH2 hate?

[Jakek9]

PoHs + plot introduction and development = Wonderland, Agrabah.
Keyblade information = Traverse Town, Atlantica
SDG development = Deep Jungle, Neverland
Pure plot = Traverse Town, End of the World, Hollow Bastion, Neverland
Heartless + Heart introduction = Halloween Town.
Arguably the only world that's completely redundant is Olympus but you get Disney villains time there and Cloud which makes it important.

Worlds west of Disney castle were a complete waste of time in KH2 and that's even if I give most worlds east of it the benefit of the doubt.

And notice you didn't mention at ALL what most of us talk about. Being characters and such. And liking the FM+ doesn't mean you like KH2. The FM+ was born because Nomura realized how much he messed up on KH2 when he was helping out on the novels.

Final Mix was going to happen anyways, because thats what goes down in Japan all the time with games, and I mentioned FM + to express How much I loved KH2.

And I still find little to nothing significant to the worlds in KH1. Argue about that all ya want.

And Characters? Fine lets talk characters. Sora is still as Naive as before with a sense of Justice. The difference is, Sora knew when to shut his mouth in KH1. Therefore he had the idea of being smart in KH1.
The dialauge isn't that great in KH2, in Twilight Town, Atlantica, and ect.
But KH1 had alot of disney characters that didn't have voice actors that sounded anything like the original, which annoyed me just as much if not more then Lame Dialuge. (Dialuge?)

Whats wrong with the west worlds? You didn't enjoy them? (I understand atlantica)

I enjoy the Keyblades in KH2 but I enjoy the traits given to Keyblades in KH1. Like reach, effectiveness, swing speed, ect.

Malificent was un-needed to the plot, but I found her somewhat enjoyable here and there. Though very rarely did I.

I could button mash the heartless in 1 just as much as 2.

The secret reports were great in both to me.

I got nothing more for the moment.

 

[Norpthalomus]

I think it's the best, aside from Days. And I haven't played BBS yet.

People hate it because it was so easy. I thought it was really easy too, but that didn't ruin the game for me. I'm going to play through again this summer on Proud mode since I did Normal the last time.

 

[destinykh]

And I still find little to nothing significant to the worlds in KH1. Argue about that all ya want.

I... I.. I am rather speechless. XD I know I can't convinced you, but I'll just say this for the sake of it:

Without Wonderland and Agrabah, Maleficent's plans wouldn't have succeeded, hence we have no plot.

Without Monstro and Neverland, the deterioration of Sora's and Riku's friendship would have no buildup. See Riku disappear from the islands, see Riku joining Maleficent in Traverse Town, then cut all the way to near the end of the game, where we see Riku suddenly turning bat shit crazy and all out to kill Sora with no explanation at all.

Without Deep Jungle, SDG's friendship wouldn't be as strong as it is today.

Compare to KH2, where remove most of the worlds, and you still have your basic plot.

But KH1 had alot of disney characters that didn't have voice actors that sounded anything like the original, which annoyed me just as much if not more then Lame Dialuge. (Dialuge?)

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but uhm, have you actually watched Disney movies? Or checked the VA list during the ending credits? Most of the Disney characters were pitch perfect because they were voiced by either their original VAs, or close to perfect imitations of them who were hired by Disney. There are less than satisfactory voices though, such as Hercules, (the bottom of the barrel for me) but they are few and far in between.

And while KH1's dialogue wasn't revolutionary, it wasn't lame in the sense that it tried to pull off corny jokes and was very rarely awkward, unlike KH2.

Whats wrong with the west worlds? You didn't enjoy them? (I understand atlantica)

It's because they have very minimal connections to the plot. The only world which has vague importance was Port Royal, Luxord being there and all and the hints of the experiments the Organization has been conducting, but what about the other worlds?

Agrabah: An Organization member is mentioned in passing. Otherwise, it's all about stopping Jafar - again.

Halloween Town: No Organization involvement at all. The only plot points which are relevant is the Experiment's plight being similar to the Organization's motives, and slight background info on Sora's and Riku's friendship.

Pride Lands: The most useless world there is aside from Atlantica. The entire plot is a carbon copy of the movie. The part about Scar's ghost is interesting, but again, no plot connection.

In one word: Filler. And it's filler in the sense that the world stories are not even used to explore the themes of the main plot.

I could button mash the heartless in 1 just as much as 2.

True, except that in KH2, you have flashy moves which sort of does most of the work for you. You want to reach the enemy at the far side of the room? Just target the enemy and perform a combo, you'll find yourself sliding there in no time. Finding yourself overwhelmed by a large number of Heartless around you? Just perform a finishing move which will damage any enemies around you (i.e. Explosion). Whereas in KH1 your basic combo is just hit and swing with no magical side effects, and you actually have to run to an enemy far away from you.

 

[Azrael]

I think it's the best, aside from Days. And I haven't played BBS yet.

People hate it because it was so easy. I thought it was really easy too, but that didn't ruin the game for me. I'm going to play through again this summer on Proud mode since I did Normal the last time.

Or it was the shitty way they executed a shitty bunch of antagonists.

 

[chasespicer056]

Or it was the shitty way they executed a shitty bunch of antagonists.

Some of the antagonists were pretty good. I'd say Xemnas and Xigbar did great jobs.

 

[Smile]

In KH2 itself? Hardly. Their charms come a bit from Days and specifically BBS.
In Days Xemnas at least had a role. In KH2 he was moaning to Kingdom Hearts and competing with AtW who could call the other a fool more times in a minute.

 

[Aquaman OS]

Problems with KH 2 are thus.

A. It tried too hard to recreate KH 1 plot wise- It seemed like they were in a rush to get SDG randomly traversing the worlds again looking for their friends while replaying more or less the exact plots from KH 1 in the worlds that returned. Is it any wonder my least favorite worlds in KH 2 are Agrabah Olympus and Halloween town because it's basically just like KH 1 bosses and all. At least the other worlds despite being filler were something new. Perhaps they were afraid the game wouldn't be liked if it was too different. As a result roughly half the game is a carbon copy of KH 1 only less interesting because

1. We've seen it already

2. SDG are now best buddies from the start so their growing friendship plot in KH 1 is non existance. In fact Donald and Goofy are basically in KH 2 so Sora isn't talking to himself the whole game.

3. It was forced by plot stupidity. Mickey and Riku were around the whole time but stupidy hid from Sora so they could keep the friend searching plot going on. Note that when the finally find Mickey instead of intelligently saying "Yeah I saw Riku he's alive and fine, so don't worry about him and focus on fighting the organization" just says "I can't tell you anything" so Sora continues to run around aimlessly searching for Riku.

This is especially bad because the most of the trailers for KH 2 hyped it as being different and more serious than KH 1 yet they forced most of that stuff out to make it just like KH 1.

B. The new characters. Roxas the big hyped up new character that people expected to be Sora's co star, is in the intro and then dissappears for the whole game right until the end. Likewise the Organization the big bad coated dudes that were also hyped as the villians, appear at the beginning and make a few token appearances for most of the game while Maleficent tries to make her comeback with Pete and the Disney Villians. Then the Organization finally take over the bad guy spot only for each member to get slaughtered 5 minutes after making their first apperance. Meanwhile the main characters of KH 1 who aren't really doing anything different here, get the spotlight.

C. The battle system. KH 1 had a fairly fun battle system. Melee combos, magic, and special attacks so you could fight bosses by mixing it up with combos, and Ars Arcanum and the occasional fire ball or two. KH 2 gets rid of most of Sora's special moves in favor of combos reaction coomands and drive forms. The best way to win fights is simply to use the same 3 or 4 hit combo with explosion at the end while using reaction commands when you can. And I don't know about you guys but I don't find pressing Triangle and watching Sora do a complex move I've got no control over repeated really fun. As for Drive forms, as flashy as they are they didn't help much because you have to conserve them for Boss fights and they can't be used if Sora doesn't have a full party meaning in many battles especially the last one they can't be used at all.

Final Mix improved some of these problems notably by giving Sora Limit Form (which gives him his special moves back and can be used anywhere, even the final battle) and adding some extra scenes checking in on the Organization from time to time. Still though it was lacking.

Fortunately BBS fixed most of those problems, with a solid story, plot points in all worlds, mostly new worlds, focus on the new characters and a fun yet flashy battle system that you have total control over. I can only hope they keep this in mind when it's time for the next Sora game and embrace the changes and potential of the series instead of having him traversing with Donald and Goofy (who at this point have no further reason to travel with Sora and should go back to their Castle posts and let Sora either go on his own, or with new characters that he can develop with) and replaying the plot of KH 1 with a different final boss for the 4th time.

 

[Smile]

Sora, Donald and Goofy are most likely going to be the party members in the next Sora installment, so getting your hopes up about that aren't a smart thing. I do hope they'll take up the scenarios option more though so we'd at least be able to switch between SDG, and Riku and/or Mickey for at least some variety.
The main thing that was truly lacking in KH2 though was that Donald and Goofy were, as you pointed it out, pointless. They FOUND the king and then hung around Sora for the lulz.
In KH1, they had their own plot. Set development aside for a moment, they had plot. That was why Hollow Bastion was so painful and the conflict even existed, otherwise Donald and Goofy would've been mostly pointless in KH1 too. But they found the Key and saved the universe even after switching sides and then basically acting out treason against the King by abandoning Riku who was the Key at the time. They tried to recreate that in KH2 but it was as lackluster as the rest of it was, and there was no betraying Sora there. You appreciated Donald and Goofy going against the King's orders because you saw they were torn. In KH2 it was "oh well, let's go, Sora <3" and while I did love them for that, it was hardly as worthwhile.

Loved the rest of the post.

 

[Aquaman OS]

I think they should adopt a multiple controllable party system similar to Rogue Galaxy myself (Where you always play as Sora in non combat areas but in them can set him to automatic and play as another character). Nomura mentioned they were testing the idea of switchable party members with the BBS scenarios and the 3 playable characters that controlled differently. They'd probably have to ditch the Disney world members for this but BBS did and there wasn't a notable drop in plot quality. They have to break the formulaticness of KH 1 and 2 to get ahead now.

 

[Smile]

I'm not even sure they'd have to ditch the Disney world members to do that.

 

[Jakek9]

@DestinyKH

Haha. I love your reasoning. I could actually argue a few worlds for KH2 like Halloween Town, but I think you made your point across. Idk, I just love challenges. And KH1 seemed just as easy as KH2. Especially with the special moves they have in KH1, and how you can't be damaged while using them. KH1 sephiroth wasn't all that hard because of it.

Though I mostly have to agree with you. I really enjoyed KH2 and KH2 Final Mix, it's not that I didn't enjoy KH1, but my fun is mostly based off of challenege. Which seemed just as easy or hard in KH1 as KH2.

Though since the other part of my fun is figuring out plot, and slowly watching it un-wravel. I truthfully have to say I was more "emotional" about the plot in KH1 than 2.

2 had a few points were I had gotten "Emotional" (using the term lightly for now) I had quite a few moments where I felt happy, sad, and epic.

but 1 had me going most the time. The plot never stopped to frustrate me, or make me happy, or make me have this epic feeling, or ect. It gave me mulitple emotions about the story.

And i could still argue the world value in KH1, but I'll let it go.

I think you got me. though, I don't hate on KH2 or KH1. Thats for COM. XD

 

[Smile]

Ironically, as far as plot progression and character development and true reason for emotional attachments go, CoM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KH1 and KH2 combined and multiplied.


Days I didn't throw into the equation because that seems to rely mostly on whether or not you like Xion. Tore me apart since I love the girl. To others, it was amusing at times.

 

[Azrael]

Ironically, as far as plot progression and character development and true reason for emotional attachments go, CoM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KH1 and KH2 combined and multiplied.


Days I didn't throw into the equation because that seems to rely mostly on whether or not you like Xion. Tore me apart since I love the girl. To others, it was amusing at times.

Oh yes. To me it was amusingly horrible. Although I will give Days this. It does change my viewpoint of some of the Organization members. Roxas sucks. Axel sucks less now but he still sucks. Xemnas is a utterly cruel bastard and same goes for Saix (and maybe Xigbar)

 

[Chrono Mizaki]

Ironically, as far as plot progression and character development and true reason for emotional attachments go, CoM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KH1 and KH2 combined and multiplied.

Pretty much, but its downside was its pacing that tried to drag it down. It still manage to come out on top. Though the overall plot goes to the Original KH, whilst COM wins for those you mention above.

The later KH titles have pacing that gradually got worse, in my opinion.

 

[Azrael]

Pretty much, but its downside was its pacing that tried to drag it down. It still manage to come out on top. Though the overall plot goes to the Original KH, whilst COM wins for those you mention above.

The later KH titles have pacing that gradually got worse, in my opinion.

CoM only had the better plot when it came to do in-between world cutscenes and then the latter card worlds.

The beginning was a bit of repeating KH1.

 

[Chrono Mizaki]

CoM only had the better plot when it came to do in-between world cutscenes and then the latter card worlds.

Hence why I slate it for pacing problems. Really, the in-between worlds were a missed opportunity. Considering they are all comprised of memories, I believe that they should add the whole mystery, like altering the memories [like something that wasn't suppose to happen, but did. Or what Sora witness, but that isn't the reality]. It would've sorted the pacing problem and put COM far better than it should imo.

 

[3keybladewielder]

i mainly enjoyed it the drive forms made it worth it with a bit of a poo story line

but hey DEMYX DIED!

 

[Esso]

I liked the Drive forms as well but the reaction commands are too easy to use.
But the story is okay.

 

[Smile]

Hence why I slate it for pacing problems. Really, the in-between worlds were a missed opportunity. Considering they are all comprised of memories, I believe that they should add the whole mystery, like altering the memories [like something that wasn't suppose to happen, but did. Or what Sora witness, but that isn't the reality]. It would've sorted the pacing problem and put COM far better than it should imo.

I liked the CoM Disney worlds for the implications :C they DID change things in there and it was like Namine was trying to warn Sora... only in Monstro we see that he doesn't care so long as going up means he gets to be with Namine ;w;

 

[Chrono Mizaki]

I liked the CoM Disney worlds for the implications :C

It was like playing Kingdom Hearts for the GBA. When I first bought the game, I thought "Wait, is this a KH1 port for the GBA with cards". Whilst I'm glad I stuck with it, I cannot ignore that COM have some bad pacing, which is miniscule compared to II/Days pacing.