Xehanort's many forms... (for those that are confused about what's going on)

[Welsby101]

Honestly bro you're the best! GREAT JOB MY MAN! GREAT JOB!

 

[billyzanesucks]

It was said in DDD that it was instinctive to him to do all of that... He probably always went to one spot in time where he was explained things in greater detail (or perhaps he wrote himself a letter so he could remember everything)

What? He knew to gather the other Xehanorts because the Brown Robed Figure told him. You only lose memories when returning to your original time, and I don't see why he would need to do that.

 

[Welsby101]

What? He knew to gather the other Xehanorts because the Brown Robed Figure told him. You only lose memories when returning to your original time, and I don't see why he would need to do that.

right, so who exactly is the hooded figure then?

 

[Crystal]

^I think he is referring to Ansem SoD.

 

[Welsby101]

Right ok so at some point in time Ansem SoD went back in time to tell YX to come and collect all forms of xehanort in case Xemnas didnt fulfill his "true purpose" with O13?

one thing that is baffling me though is, how does Ansem SoD know about MX true plan? When Ansem SoD is Terranort's heartless, and terranort couldnt remember anything but the name "Xehanort" right? so how when terranort's heartless and nobody came into being, how did they know of MX grand master plan? Does becoming a heartless and a nobody give you back knowledge you once had? Or did they get Terranorts reports? wow this is confusing.

 

[Welsby101]

its ok, i forgot about the whole chamber of repose thing...

anyway, can somebody tell me Xemnas wanted to find the chamber of waking so badly? do you think it has something to do with Terra being a part of him, and wanting to find ventus? or was xemnas just wanting to find out more about his history?

Also, why in DDD is MX back instead of terranort (XA)? (I feel we may have already discussed this, but im confused :S?)

 

[billyzanesucks]

one thing that is baffling me though is, how does Ansem SoD know about MX true plan?

He invented it.

When Ansem SoD is Terranort's heartless, and terranort couldnt remember anything but the name "Xehanort" right?

No. The opening for 3D pretty much confirms that Apprentice Xehanort never lost his memories, or, at the very least, managed to regain them.

anyway, can somebody tell me Xemnas wanted to find the chamber of waking so badly?

The chambers have some kind of united purpose. We'll have to wait and see what. My current belief is that Xemnas hoped to use him as a vessel.

Also, why in DDD is MX back instead of terranort (XA)?

When talking about the seven lights, MX says that Sora and one other wielder are on his side. He was probably talking about Terra. He must have left a piece of his heart inside Terra and returned to his original body.

 

[PhantomSoD]

Thanks for the link. This is really comprehensive :biggrin:. Just one thing I didn't understand though. In the original post when you say that MX in DDD is from the future, what makes you think so? By the end of BBS Xeanhort cast away his body to take on Terra's, so how did it come back in the future? Also, I don't get how the newly revived MX from the future would know to go back to that exact moment in time if YMX lost all memories of their time traveling plot when he returned to his own time in order to grow into the old MX we know....unless the future MX was the heart in the brown cloak that talked to YMX in the first place??? Ugh, time travel

 

[JustSnilloc]

Thanks for the link. This is really comprehensive :biggrin:. Just one thing I didn't understand though. In the original post when you say that MX in DDD is from the future, what makes you think so? By the end of BBS Xeanhort cast away his body to take on Terra's, so how did it come back in the future? Also, I don't get how the newly revived MX from the future would know to go back to that exact moment in time if YMX lost all memories of their time traveling plot when he returned to his own time in order to grow into the old MX we know....unless the future MX was the heart in the brown cloak that talked to YMX in the first place??? Ugh, time travel

I kind of left that as is, because I originally wrote it that way, but I'll fix it... Basically, it wasn't explained whether or not he was from the present or near future, so I assumed that he was from one of the two. At this point, it's clear that he's from the present

Glad this helped out though ^_^

 

[Commander Corn]

So is the Brown-Robed Figure Xehanort's heartless's true form? I mean when Terra-Nort died and his heartless was created, is the Brown-Robed Figure what came into existence? Or is the Ansem, SoD body his true form? If Brown-Robe is the true heartless then how did it get into the Ansem body? 0.o

 

[JustSnilloc]

So is the Brown-Robed Figure Xehanort's heartless's true form? I mean when Terra-Nort died and his heartless was created, is the Brown-Robed Figure what came into existence? Or is the Ansem, SoD body his true form? If Brown-Robe is the true heartless then how did it get into the Ansem body? 0.o

Alright, so when Apprentice Xehanort spilt into a Nobody and a "Heartless", his Nobody became Xemnas and his "Heartless" became the Brown Robed Figure. You see, the Brown Robed Figure is the true form of Ansem SoD.

The above is what became of Apprentice Xehanort upon his birth as an existence of only the heart. He no longer had a body at this point.

The above is Ansem SoD after acquiring Riku's body. Without having a body, Ansem would have never looked like this

...

However, at this point I'm convinced that Ansem SoD wasn't a heartless anyways, not that his existence as a heartless or a PPS changes much about him, but it does allow for other things and it makes him as a whole make more sense.

 

[flyingfishstick]

I just want to make sure I have this time travel crap straight. Because the brown robed figure lacked a body, he was able to travel back in time to YMX and convince him to give up his body as well so that he could gather the other Xehanorts. Why did YMX need to give up his body if the robed figure already accomplished this?

 

[billyzanesucks]

I just want to make sure I have this time travel crap straight. Because the brown robed figure lacked a body, he was able to travel back in time to YX and convince him to give up his body as well so that he could gather the other Xehanorts. Why did YX need to give up his body if the robed figure already accomplished this?

Young Xehanort didn't give up his body. Since Ansem had done it, his powers were carried into YX.

 

[flyingfishstick]

I thought we were just discussing how YMX is a PPS.

 

[billyzanesucks]

I thought we were just discussing how YMX is a PPS.

Well, he wasn't .

 

[flyingfishstick]

Well, he wasn't .

Does the robed figure have to be present in order for the other Xehanorts to travel through time since he is acting as a portal?

 

[Evello]

Does the robed figure have to be present in order for the other Xehanorts to travel through time since he is acting as a portal?

No, I don't believe so. I'm fairly certain that because YMX is the same person as XH, the power is transferable. Thus YMX didn't have to give up his body to time travel, since he had already technically done it. XH passed the power to him.

The robed figure simply had to be at the threshold to the Realm of Sleep so that YMX could travel to that point (he can only travel to places/times his future selves have been) and enter the Sleeping Worlds.

 

[Lap]

So by the rules of Time-Travel in the KH Universe, what your saying is...

YMX brings all the past forms of Master Xehanort into the current timeframe.
But they HAVE to later return to continue what the past has already done.

Meaning at some point down the timeline of KH, more than likely in KH3, the Xehanorts will leave and return to their respective points in history.

Which also means MX can't have his Organization of XIII Darkness's. This plan has too many loopholes. If any of the Warriors of Light defeat a form of Xehanort in the current time, then BAM! There goes an incarnation, and MX is one man down. Hmmm... MX isn't that stupid.

I think I might have figured out how that part may work. According to DDD’s lore about time travel, it is impossible to change the past, right? If that is so, then I think Nortie would never run out of people for his New Organortzation XIII, as some people have called it. Just bear with me, okay?
For instance, if Xemnas - also known as Mansex or Bass Troll Philosopher of the In-Between – got his *ss kicked by Kairi (hey, don’t frown upon me, it could happen), he wouldn’t actually die; rather, he would just vanish and come back later. Just as Ansem SoD(a) after the fight that took place in DDD; less than fifteen minutes later there he is, fresh as a rose and ready to kick some more butt, wearing his brand-new black coat (Armani coat, maybe?). Didn’t anyone find it suspiciously strange? Did he equip an autorisega skill or somethin’ before the battle, just in case?
Plus, if they really were destructed, it would not only cause a time paradox, but also outright violate what we have been told about time travel: they die, therefore they cannot go back to their own time, therefore nothing related to hammy muscled white-haired men happens. Since this is an illogical scenario, we have no other option but to conclude that they don’t die, but just disappear from our present and return to their own time.
The truth is, there is a particularly interesting consequence to this possibility if it turns out true. If they actually just go back, then things return to ground zero, that is, time keeps flowing as if they had not been summoned at all. But – and here comes the good part – does that necessarily mean that Young Nortie is no longer able to bring them back to the present again after their defeat? In fact, what is there to say that he cannot take them on little trips to the future as many times as he sees fit?
To sum it up, this means that all Nortie’s past versions of himself are virtually impossible to destroy, as they can be “revived” as many times as is required. From this, we can conclude that the Lighties’ ultimate goal should actually be Xehanold (forgive the pun) instead of his unlimited army of Darkies. And I say unlimited army because, from what we know, he could have as many versions of himself as he wanted, as there are infinite points of time; the only thing holding him back is that he needs exactly 12 Darkies (plus 1, counting himself) to clash with the 7 Lighties and forge the X-Blade (which has nothing to do with that gory manga by CLAMP).
I foresee that the last battle in KH3 might be against Nortie’s All-your-powers-combined form, a la Power Rangers’ mechas. Can you imagine something like World of Chaos, World of Nothingness and frikkin’ 11 more gigantic aircraft-like enemies combined into one super-duper big foe? It would be awesome. And probably hammy, too.

Ugh, was that long. Please, if you know that somebody has already worked out something similar, tell me so I don’t look like some random dude who enjoys posting other people’s theories as his own.

P.S.: By the way, this might be a little off-topic, but don’t you think DDD must have felt like heaven to Riku/Sora shippers? I mean, whoa, Nomura, you said you wanted Kairi and Sora to develop clear romantic feelings for one another in KH3, but, dude, you have just surpassed yourself. Not that I think there is something inherently bad with the latter or anythin’.

 

[Mansex'sLover]

I think I might have figured out how that part may work. According to DDD’s lore about time travel, it is impossible to change the past, right? If that is so, then I think Nortie would never run out of people for his New Organortzation XIII, as some people have called it. Just bear with me, okay?
For instance, if Xemnas - also known as Mansex or Bass Troll Philosopher of the In-Between – got his *ss kicked by Kairi (hey, don’t frown upon me, it could happen), he wouldn’t actually die; rather, he would just vanish and come back later. Just as Ansem SoD(a) after the fight that took place in DDD; less than fifteen minutes later there he is, fresh as a rose and ready to kick some more butt, wearing his brand-new black coat (Armani coat, maybe?). Didn’t anyone find it suspiciously strange? Did he equip an autorisega skill or somethin’ before the battle, just in case?
Plus, if they really were destructed, it would not only cause a time paradox, but also outright violate what we have been told about time travel: they die, therefore they cannot go back to their own time, therefore nothing related to hammy muscled white-haired men happens. Since this is an illogical scenario, we have no other option but to conclude that they don’t die, but just disappear from our present and return to their own time.
The truth is, there is a particularly interesting consequence to this possibility if it turns out true. If they actually just go back, then things return to ground zero, that is, time keeps flowing as if they had not been summoned at all. But – and here comes the good part – does that necessarily mean that Young Nortie is no longer able to bring them back to the present again after their defeat? In fact, what is there to say that he cannot take them on little trips to the future as many times as he sees fit?
To sum it up, this means that all Nortie’s past versions of himself are virtually impossible to destroy, as they can be “revived” as many times as is required. From this, we can conclude that the Lighties’ ultimate goal should actually be Xehanold (forgive the pun) instead of his unlimited army of Darkies. And I say unlimited army because, from what we know, he could have as many versions of himself as he wanted, as there are infinite points of time; the only thing holding him back is that he needs exactly 12 Darkies (plus 1, counting himself) to clash with the 7 Lighties and forge the X-Blade (which has nothing to do with that gory manga by CLAMP).
I foresee that the last battle in KH3 might be against Nortie’s All-your-powers-combined form, a la Power Rangers’ mechas. Can you imagine something like World of Chaos, World of Nothingness and frikkin’ 11 more gigantic aircraft-like enemies combined into one super-duper big foe? It would be awesome. And probably hammy, too.

Ugh, was that long. Please, if you know that somebody has already worked out something similar, tell me so I don’t look like some random dude who enjoys posting other people’s theories as his own.

P.S.: By the way, this might be a little off-topic, but don’t you think DDD must have felt like heaven to Riku/Sora shippers? I mean, whoa, Nomura, you said you wanted Kairi and Sora to develop clear romantic feelings for one another in KH3, but, dude, you have just surpassed yourself. Not that I think there is something inherently bad with the latter or anythin’.

Interesting. That's definitely something to consider. But, I have a conjecture to offer. If YMX has already traveled through time, and he will eventually return to his period of time and forget the events of the future, how would they continuously keep being brought back? Judging by the fact that time travel works on a one-way road in the KH universe, wouldn't that mean that he can't bring them back again, since he can neither go back to the past and then forward again, nor can he go back to his period of time and go forward again?

 

[Dreaded_Desire62]

Alright, so when Apprentice Xehanort spilt into a Nobody and a "Heartless", his Nobody became Xemnas and his "Heartless" became the Brown Robed Figure. You see, the Brown Robed Figure is the true form of Ansem SoD.

The above is what became of Apprentice Xehanort upon his birth as an existence of only the heart. He no longer had a body at this point.

The above is Ansem SoD after acquiring Riku's body. Without having a body, Ansem would have never looked like this

...

However, at this point I'm convinced that Ansem SoD wasn't a heartless anyways, not that his existence as a heartless or a PPS changes much about him, but it does allow for other things and it makes him as a whole make more sense.

Yep, and it's possible that a thirteenth vessel already maybe underway for Xehanort. It could be in the form of Sora, Riku, Even, Dilan and maybe even Kairi. There are many factors that connect Sora and Riku to Xehanort, such as Riku wanting to leave his home or Sora being the second to regain his human form. So with that in mind, Xehanort's Heartless may be a pseudo-Heartless. Larxene and Axel (English Subs) - YouTube