Alter/Improve what do you guys mean
How would you alter/improve the Kingdom Hearts series?
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Dropping the Disney aspects and cheeseyness would actually hurt the series, if you ask me. That being said, I think what is hurting the series when it comes to the cheesey moments is the diaogue itself and/or the delivery of the lines. A good example, in my opinion, of a show balancing mature topics with great characters and some cheesey moments (which exists in every form of media ever, btw) is Buffy the Vampire Slayer, specifically any of the scenes from Season 3 and up. If KH could teach that level, then we'd be good, but I do gotta admit sometimes the series can be cringey just from odd translations OR voice delivery.
Maybe that's why, as much as I find the Days story meh, I love the translated lines and the really great humor thrown into it, which is pretty much nonexistent from the rest of the series.
Essentially, how to make the series better.
Maybe that's why, as much as I find the Days story meh, I love the translated lines and the really great humor thrown into it, which is pretty much nonexistent from the rest of the series.
Essentially, how to make the series better.
Kingdom Hearts: All of the improvements I would have made were made in the 1.5 remix re-release. I guess other than that I would make the camera less twitchy.
Chain of Memories: Honestly, nothing except make Riku's Disney worlds more interesting.
Kingdom Hearts II: Make it less linear, spread the plot out so half of the game doesn't seem empty, and make the Disney worlds consequential. Also, it wouldn't kill you to remove some reaction commands or make the difficulty a tiny bit higher.
Days: Remaster it for PS2. All of the gameplay problems I have with the DS version could be solved if you remastered it for PS2. If we're discussing the movie, make it less boring, PLEASE.
Birth by Sleep: Make the worlds seem less empty, get a better voice actor for Terra and Aqua, and make the plot compelling all of the way through. This friendship dialogue is terrible, what happened to the writers from Days?
Re:Coded: Um, make it more consequential? I honestly love this one to death, it's just a shame that the plot isn't substantial enough. Gotta love Data-Sora though.
DDD: Don't know, never played it. Seems a bit convoluted though.
Unchained X: I'd ask for more interesting gameplay, but it is interesting... for a phone game, I guess. I don't know. Maybe actually include the X-Blade in the plot, possibly? Like where did that plot point go?
Chain of Memories: Honestly, nothing except make Riku's Disney worlds more interesting.
Kingdom Hearts II: Make it less linear, spread the plot out so half of the game doesn't seem empty, and make the Disney worlds consequential. Also, it wouldn't kill you to remove some reaction commands or make the difficulty a tiny bit higher.
Days: Remaster it for PS2. All of the gameplay problems I have with the DS version could be solved if you remastered it for PS2. If we're discussing the movie, make it less boring, PLEASE.
Birth by Sleep: Make the worlds seem less empty, get a better voice actor for Terra and Aqua, and make the plot compelling all of the way through. This friendship dialogue is terrible, what happened to the writers from Days?
Re:Coded: Um, make it more consequential? I honestly love this one to death, it's just a shame that the plot isn't substantial enough. Gotta love Data-Sora though.
DDD: Don't know, never played it. Seems a bit convoluted though.
Unchained X: I'd ask for more interesting gameplay, but it is interesting... for a phone game, I guess. I don't know. Maybe actually include the X-Blade in the plot, possibly? Like where did that plot point go?
wha
Sorry but (a) new VA(s) for Aqua (and Terra) would be so stuupid because I love Willa and I actually don't think she's that bad (especially now compared to the beginning of BBS - she was greatly improving throughout the course of the game.
Sorry but (a) new VA(s) for Aqua (and Terra) would be so stuupid because I love Willa and I actually don't think she's that bad (especially now compared to the beginning of BBS - she was greatly improving throughout the course of the game.
I'll give you that, she is better towards the end part of the game than the beginning part, and she looks like she'll be good in 0.2 (fingers crossed). I still think Terra's voice actor isn't very good though. Maybe it was poor direction or something (I don't know anything else his voice actor has done), but I generally felt that his presence in the game was just not acted very well at all. I felt like his scenes often killed emotional tension because of how apathetic and disinterested he sounded. Willa certainly was trying when she had a bad line, and overall (despite the fact that I don't like his singing) Jesse McCartney's voice work in the series is really good, even if Ventus might not be the best character.
I agree with you on Terra, that's why I put him into ()s
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I legit think at least for Willa it was the voice directors and writing at fault. Because Willa is a good voice actor and good actor to begin with, her performance seriously improved over the game while she sounds great in 0.2. I legit think that the only bad VA was Jason and it's not so much that Jason is bad it's that....First off he sounds way too young (seriously generally the Japanese VA and English VA sound around the same age but Terra is the exception you have this adult powerful deep voice in Japanese BBS and...whatever Jason is supposed to be in BBS which doesn't make sense seeing as Jason is not a kid he has a naturally deeper voice why is he not using it) and second he seems to only be good at certain emotions. Like when it comes to anger or sadness or any sort of expression of grief the guy nails the delivery. But when it comes to happiness, confusion, interest, pondering, etc... he sounds like he's just reading a script in a monotone. Like...I feel this is the worst scene of the bunch for Terra. (Specifically the lines he says while he talks to himself in the dark shack)
https://youtu.be/4VxfbIwJuuA?t=43
Aqua...Ven...
*3 second pause*
I wonder if will ever be a team again
Looks like the all the things that once held us together (and at together he subtly for some reason lightens his tone)
*3 second pause*
Just push us further AWAY (okay he doesn't shout it but for some reason he randomly emphasizes away slightly in a way that is just so stiff)
*2 second pause*
And now the light has lead me here (he says this line faster than the others and slightly higher pitch, it also feels like he very blatantly just reading a script line)
*2 second pause*
What am I supposed to do? (he says in an almost robot tone like he's reading a question not asking one)
Seriously that scene is my least favorite one in the entire game because everything about this delivery/acting feels so awkward.
https://youtu.be/4VxfbIwJuuA?t=43
Aqua...Ven...
*3 second pause*
I wonder if will ever be a team again
Looks like the all the things that once held us together (and at together he subtly for some reason lightens his tone)
*3 second pause*
Just push us further AWAY (okay he doesn't shout it but for some reason he randomly emphasizes away slightly in a way that is just so stiff)
*2 second pause*
And now the light has lead me here (he says this line faster than the others and slightly higher pitch, it also feels like he very blatantly just reading a script line)
*2 second pause*
What am I supposed to do? (he says in an almost robot tone like he's reading a question not asking one)
Seriously that scene is my least favorite one in the entire game because everything about this delivery/acting feels so awkward.
If I could change only one thing, it would have to do with the story. I am one of those fans who's main love of Kingdom Hearts is the story and I actually really like how complicated it is. However, that being said, one of the core reasons that the KH story has become as hard to understand and convoluted as it has is because Nomura and co break one of the fundamental rules of storytelling, and that is to establish rules in your fantasy universe. Anything can happen in your fantasy world, but to tell a coherent story, that fantasy world needs rules which govern what is and is not possible.
The story in KH tosses this aside and constantly breaks the rules of its own mythos simply to make one or two plot elements work. Rather than try to come up with a different idea that sticks to pre-established canon, the story regularly makes exceptions or outright breaks the rules. And when these rules get broken, the explanation for how and why this rule break is possible is what makes KH so confusing.
Therefore, my biggest change would be to tighten the plot by eliminating all instances of this. Establish your rules and stick with them, Nomura.
The story in KH tosses this aside and constantly breaks the rules of its own mythos simply to make one or two plot elements work. Rather than try to come up with a different idea that sticks to pre-established canon, the story regularly makes exceptions or outright breaks the rules. And when these rules get broken, the explanation for how and why this rule break is possible is what makes KH so confusing.
Therefore, my biggest change would be to tighten the plot by eliminating all instances of this. Establish your rules and stick with them, Nomura.
*slow claps for Hirokey*
Pretty much exactly what's wrong with his writing. If they just gave the BbS trio the wit of the Days trio and had Terra deliver his lines based on happiness or the other emotions you listed here better (or just rewrite some of his scenes entirely honestly), I think this would have gone on a lot better. Look, Terra does have good scenes in the game; I know he can have good emotion, like I know he voiced over one still of him and Ventus talking about training and he actually had some really good positive emotion there, but I wish the actor had tried harder to implement that into more of the game and that whoever was directing him either demanded more of him or simply asked for a couple of rewrites in his script. He does sound marginally better in 0.2 though, we'll see.
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I'd of changed the dialogue to something more like this...
Aqua...Ven...will we ever be a team again? It feels like the things that used to bring us together now just push us further apart...I don't know what to do but the light has guided me here, so maybe, something in this world holds the answer.
Of course Jason will still need to do a proper delivery but I feel that's a more natural sounding dialogue than what we had. .....if I was bored enough I'd go back and rearrange most of the BBS scenes and post it all somewhere.
Actually you know what I'm bored enough I'll do one more...
Ven: Whoa!
Aqua: Hehe
Ven: Aqua!, Did you come to watch the meteor shower to?
Aqua: No you hopeless sleepy head, I came to make sure you didn't fall asleep without a blanket.
Ven: Oh....
Ven: Hey Aqua in my dream, I was on an island looking up at the stars and it really felt like I had been there before.
Aqua: Really? But you don't have any memories of before you came here to live with us remember?
Ven: Yeah I know but maybe....
Ven: Hey can I ask you something?
Aqua: Hm?
Ven: You ever wonder....what stars are made of, where light comes from?
Aqua: Well they say...
Terra: That every star up there is another world.
Ven and Aqua: Terra!
Terra: There are millions of worlds out there and the lights of their hearts shine down upon us like lanterns lighting up the dark.
Ven: I don't understand...
Terra: It means they are like you Ven.
Ven: What does that mean?
Terra: Don't worry you'll understand what I'm saying someday.
Ven: But I wanna know now!
Terra: You need to wait till you are older.
Ven: Stop treating me like a kid!
Aqua: hehehe
Terra: What's so funny?
Aqua: I'm sorry it's just...sometimes I just can't help but picture what a weird pair of brothers you'd guys make.
Ven and Terra:......
*Trio looks at one another then laughs as they all picture it*
Just some subtle changes, a little less KH1 word for word going on so it feels more organic to the characters while still getting the message across. Ven gets a bit more detailed with his dream and Aqua doesn't randomly lie to Ven's face about him always living there with them. Instead now Aqua questions what Ven saw and reminds him that it's unlikely it's a memory, while also communicating to the players right from the get go that Ventus suffered from amnesia like they did with Kairi in KH1. Add a bit of hesitation in Ven's next sentence to make it sound like he was going to press the subject but decided against it, perhaps implying he's tried to press for more info in the past but failed. So now he had to make up a question from the top of his head, which makes that question feel more organic instead of a sudden dropping of Ven's dream and lack of memories to talk about stars. Reword Terra's stuff so it's more clear that Terra is saying something like basically Ven's heart shines as bright as star and that pushes the darkness away, sort of a subtle hint Ven actually possesses a heart of pure light. Not that Terra would know that he would just be able to feel a pure and innocent light shines from Ventus like the 3 good fairies and Even could sense. Finally same message that Aqua is imagining the two as real brothers and laughing at the thought, but worded less awkwardly.
Aqua...Ven...will we ever be a team again? It feels like the things that used to bring us together now just push us further apart...I don't know what to do but the light has guided me here, so maybe, something in this world holds the answer.
Of course Jason will still need to do a proper delivery but I feel that's a more natural sounding dialogue than what we had. .....if I was bored enough I'd go back and rearrange most of the BBS scenes and post it all somewhere.
Actually you know what I'm bored enough I'll do one more...
Ven: Whoa!
Aqua: Hehe
Ven: Aqua!, Did you come to watch the meteor shower to?
Aqua: No you hopeless sleepy head, I came to make sure you didn't fall asleep without a blanket.
Ven: Oh....
Ven: Hey Aqua in my dream, I was on an island looking up at the stars and it really felt like I had been there before.
Aqua: Really? But you don't have any memories of before you came here to live with us remember?
Ven: Yeah I know but maybe....
Ven: Hey can I ask you something?
Aqua: Hm?
Ven: You ever wonder....what stars are made of, where light comes from?
Aqua: Well they say...
Terra: That every star up there is another world.
Ven and Aqua: Terra!
Terra: There are millions of worlds out there and the lights of their hearts shine down upon us like lanterns lighting up the dark.
Ven: I don't understand...
Terra: It means they are like you Ven.
Ven: What does that mean?
Terra: Don't worry you'll understand what I'm saying someday.
Ven: But I wanna know now!
Terra: You need to wait till you are older.
Ven: Stop treating me like a kid!
Aqua: hehehe
Terra: What's so funny?
Aqua: I'm sorry it's just...sometimes I just can't help but picture what a weird pair of brothers you'd guys make.
Ven and Terra:......
*Trio looks at one another then laughs as they all picture it*
Just some subtle changes, a little less KH1 word for word going on so it feels more organic to the characters while still getting the message across. Ven gets a bit more detailed with his dream and Aqua doesn't randomly lie to Ven's face about him always living there with them. Instead now Aqua questions what Ven saw and reminds him that it's unlikely it's a memory, while also communicating to the players right from the get go that Ventus suffered from amnesia like they did with Kairi in KH1. Add a bit of hesitation in Ven's next sentence to make it sound like he was going to press the subject but decided against it, perhaps implying he's tried to press for more info in the past but failed. So now he had to make up a question from the top of his head, which makes that question feel more organic instead of a sudden dropping of Ven's dream and lack of memories to talk about stars. Reword Terra's stuff so it's more clear that Terra is saying something like basically Ven's heart shines as bright as star and that pushes the darkness away, sort of a subtle hint Ven actually possesses a heart of pure light. Not that Terra would know that he would just be able to feel a pure and innocent light shines from Ventus like the 3 good fairies and Even could sense. Finally same message that Aqua is imagining the two as real brothers and laughing at the thought, but worded less awkwardly.
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The characters being connected is kind of important in the series considering without them no one would have known Terra, Aqua, and Ventus existed or that they needed help and they definitely wouldn't be trying to save them. Also that destroys the whole message and meaning of the "Heart" in the series. "Our Hearts are connected" taking away that connection that connects everyone destroys the ideology.
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Lol you're of an interesting mind to think nobodies are cute... Never thought I'd hear that, but different strokes for different folks. I think some of you guys are misunderstanding me. By saying "I know it's Disney" means that there is some amount of cheesiness/silliness allowed, I understand and appreciate that. It's when the Pokemon levels of friend interaction kick in that I'm like "wtf". I think it'd be stronger without devolving to typical anime tropes like characters laughing awkwardly at nothing for extended periods of time. There's a balance that needs to be maintained and the series struggles to do so at times. Obviously not enough to turn me off from the series completely, but enough to not recommend KH to a lot of people I regularly interact with. I just think it'd be much stronger without that sort of thing involved. Stuff like Donald's shenanigans are hilarious and part of the charm. I just want friend to friend interactions to feel more natural and less forced, and also for the design to lean more heartless/nobody and less dream eater/unversed. The dream eater designs alone turned me off from playing DDD for an exceptionally long time and I still dread that aspect of the game even looking forward to 2.8.
I don't know how you think Rouge One fits what your implying in any way Rouge One does set up for the future it leads right into a New Hope and it does connect to it clearly it explains why the weakness in Death Star even exists which has been a huge controversy in the Star Wars Community for a long time. And how the rebels got the plans to blow it up in the first place. Saying that it exists as its own thing and is completely unconnected to the Star Wars Story and lore is completely untrue. Maybe you should wait until the Chi series is completed before you decide or assume whether or not it does add a good thing to the series but even if you aren't happy with Chi's contribution to KH's Story you better get used to it because it's been stated and shown for a long time that Chi's and KH3 stories are connected. With the whole "lost masters" ordeal. I don't understand how anyone could not be interested in X story. What with it being the origin story of the KH universe and why the separate worlds exist today and why they became divided in the first place. Also there's the fact the series could finally give us answers to Ventus's origins that where hinted at vaguely in BBS. Not to mention possibly giving us some insight on Xehanort's obsession with the Keyblade War. The reason the fake worlds exist in Chi is 1 to show off the Book of prophecies Powers which is going to play a role in 3's story also to give us our Disney in the game cause A KH game without any Disney is hardly a Kingdom Hearts game.
I don't mean to be rude here, but I'd like to play devil's advocate. The topic here is how people would improve the series, and you respond with berating people who have specific opinions on the series just because you don't understand how they don't like them. Now, I am sort of interested in how Unchained X will turn out, but there would be lots of reasons for it to turn me off if I wasn't: the foretellers in the games seem completely underdeveloped and underspoken (Invi doesn't have a single line in X if I'm correct), the only characters that have significant interaction with you are Chirithy, Skuld, and Ephemer, and the intrigue behind Ephemer is how little you see him while the intrigue behind Skuld is how you speculate about how little you see Ephemer. Honestly, if Luxu wasn't introduced with Master Xehanort's Keyblade, I'm not sure if I'd still even be that interested in it anymore. I'd still be following it, but I certainly wouldn't be playing it (since it's quite boring gameplay-wise), and unless they did something HUGE with Ventus in the future, I'm not sure if I'd even want to follow it anymore. Thank god for Back Cover.
Also, just because they're linked in some way doesn't mean they literally have to be one in the same. More characters like Ansem the Wise, Yen Sid, or even Donald, Goofy, or Jiminy are severely needed in this series since most people is either a villain that's connected to Xehanort, a hero directly a part of Sora (such as part of Ventus, Vanitas, Roxas, Xion, and Namine), or a hero that's directly a copy of a hero himself (Data-Sora! Data Riku! Data Roxas! Repliku!). Why not have a new keyblade wielder that doesn't have to be so closely tied to everyone else, or even a new light in III that doesn't even wield a keyblade? That'd sure throw us on a loop!
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Yeah, everyone's allowed to have different opinions and you're allowed to debate them but let's keep it friendly
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I believe the problem here is not the simple fact that the characters have connections, but rather how these characters are important ONLY because of these connections.
To me, it feels as though TAV sort of exist to explain away things- how this character got a Keyblade, why this other one can dual wield, why that other character has a certain appearance. And sometimes, it also felt like it took precedence over actually making these characters their own people. They aren't very well fleshed out; many find the few traits that the writing did focus on to be infuriating, like Terra's gullibility or Ven's Sora-like attitude. And in the end, their importance revolves around other pre-existing characters.
... Plus "connections" in KH often imply "clone, slightly altered clone, or palette swap" in terms of appearance. Nomura might be the director of this series, but he's still an incredible artist and character designer at his core and it's kind of a shame that he keeps limiting himself to recycling character appearances rather than flexing some of his greatest talents and giving the cast some visual variety. :I
KH1 was able to pull off the connection idea while still keeping all the characters distinct individuals, both in appearance and personality. Why shouldn't the rest of the series do this as well?
I wasn't arguing or berating I was just stating some facts and points although I do admit saying how I don't understand how someone could not be interested in Chi's Story might have caused that impression. I was just trying to make some points and possibly bring somethings into light. I don't play Chi anymore because of it being both expensive and not that enjoyable to play but I won't deny the importance the games Story has to the overall lore and Plot of the series. It's already tied to it and KH3's Story already because it's the story of the Keyblade War which is Xehanort's whole drive and motivation so it being a part of the Canonical KH Timeline is a necessity. I also wasn't denying we have more interesting characters that aren't in any shape or form a version of Sora or Xehanort and not their own characters (In fact we've been getting a lot of those lately, Chi is a big contributor of that with Ephemera, Skuld, The Foretellers, the players and Chirithy) I was denying there not being a connection that draws all these characters together (not because they are the same person) but because they all have played a role in the entire KH timeline which is what connects them. All these characters have played a role in thetime line some where from the beginning of the Keyblade War to the events of KH3 in some shape or form to get us where we are today. Like the trailer of of KH3 depicted they are all pieces who have played a role in the battle of Light vs Darkness. Them being connected is only natural seeing as each has played a role in this battle. And it all comes down to the final battle in KH3. Which is also why introducing a new important character especially one that isn't a Keyblade wielder considering that is kind of important right now, this late in the game/story wouldn't make sense. Not to mention it would take away from Sora's importance to the series if this character really wasn't at least connected to him.
How would it take away from Sora's character to have someone for once not directly connected with him? And why is a keyblade wielder absolutely essential to introduce? We have over twenty (not counting te miscellaneous thousands of players and the dandelions in the series) keyblade wielders so far, and the vast majority of the darknesses revealed so far haven't even shown capability in wielding the keyblade, unless Xigbar and Xemnas show us something interesting in Kingdom Hearts III. Adding a character doesn't take away from the importance from another; if that logic was present, everyone in X would be taking away from Sora's importance as well as every alternate playable character in the series. There are six darknesses so far: Young Xehanort, Xemnas, Xigbar, Saix, Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, and Master Xehanort, and of which only ONE is shown to wield the keyblade (Young Xehanort had to be possessed for the keyblade to be functional). So, why is it so important that this keyblade war be specifically fought with keyblades? It might just be a flaw with the series in general (in fact, Nomura probably just didn't think that part through), but it seems like you don't need a keyblade to be involved in the next title. And, seeing how many keyblade wielders we have now, it wouldn't kill Square Enix to give some non-keyblade wielders some love for a change.
Well when you said "new light" I thought you meant new central important character. That would take away from Sora's importance in KH3 because the story would have to focus around that character somewhat and not to mention all the other important characters who are going to appear in 3 will also take more time and importance from Sora but it won't be as bad with them because they'd be returning characters who wouldn't need the game to focus around them or their back story. A completely new character introduced in the game that's suppose to be the climax to the Xehanort saga would. The reason being a Keyblade wielder is so important right now is because though it isn't confirmed i believe the X-Blade can only be forged by fighting Keyblade wielders. I believe that is the reason Xehanort wants to create 13 versions of himself with pieces of his heart in them so they all can wield Keyblade's if they didn't have to be Keyblade wielders i don't see how creating 13 versions of himself would help if all he needed was 13 followers . Considering Sora's various incarnations besides Namine (who probably will get a Keyblade when she returns) track record they've all been Keyblade wielders. I agree with what your trying to say about there being more love towards the people without Keyblade's but KH3 has already got so much to do with a plot that is focusing around the second Keyblade War a non Keyblade wielder who is supposedly to be playing a huge role in it just wouldn't fit right in the plot.
Well what's wrong with only being important through connections? Whether or not we go by what was depicted in KH1 or what was explained in BBS both Stories happened because of connections. In KH1 Sora wasn't the least bit important but his connection with Riku the Keyblade's true chosen one and Kairi who was a princess of heart was the reason he got sucked into the entire KH events. I believe Nomura has gone on record time and time again to say this many times in both interviews and in the story, things like "Destiny is never left to chance" "There are no coincidences" "Everything is connected in one central Story" The entire Story is pretty much about connections, connections that are made from the hearts that tie us together I believe that is what Nomura has told us. It's rather original if you think about how there are tons of fictional stories that happened because of pure chance, coincidence and luck. Connections don't just apply to clones or look a likes Sora's strongest connection is with Kairi and those two look nothing alike. The massive amounts of characters who look alike may be annoying but story wise they make sense why they do which is why Nomura has to make people like Ventus and Roxas or Kairi and Xion look alike but he doesn't necessarily make them exact clones for example Xion has black hair while Kairi's is Red and Ventus has blonde eyebrows while Roxas's are brunettes. The reason why we can't entire have people connected with both unique appearances and personalities like back in KH1 is because KH1 was before all the look alike characters and personalities existed but that doesn't mean we have none.
It's just wrong.KeybladeKnightQ said:
I think why people don't want it is… because literally next to everybody is connected to Sora or MX now. Did you know how happy people were when Skuld and Ephemer were introduced? Because they were new characters without any connections (though that's yet to be seen).
Nomura is literally focused on just connecting everyone and their dog to Sora in some shape, way, or form. Hell, the dude was surprised because of Aqua's popularity even though she wasn't connected to Sora!
It's just this idea of "everyone is Sora". We have Xion, Roxas, Ventus, Data-Sora, Vanitas (only in appearance, still counts), and if you count her as well, Naminé because she has those crazy-ass powers over Sora's memories.
It's why these memes exist.
Highlighted below are all the characters that are, or have ever been, Sora.
Now here are all the characters that are, or have ever been, Xehanort.
And, finally, here are all the characters that are… female.
And it needs to stop.
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