358/2 Days Crazy Connection to BBS that i noticed like 4 monthes ago but never posted it

[HeartSeams]

At 1:32 in this video. YouTube - Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days - Day 96 [Part 1/2] [English]
Does anyone remeber a certain ceremony in bbs??? Hmm HMM?
Notice how the camera zooms in during this (Square is giving a hint). Now my theory on this is that Xion's Keyblade is fake up to this point. On the Darkside Mission YouTube - Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days - Day 25 - Darkside [English]. at 4:37 it just kinda appeared in her hand, not picking it up. i think this is Xion's replication of it. Then through the keyblade inheritance ceremony (which can be performed without the words) Xion gets a real keyblade. Roxas technically is a keyblade master, because of you know who's heart inside him. And for those of you who are going for the "Riku said it was a fake" its just because he thought only sora and mickey had it as seen in the "Deep Dive" trailer where he says "WHY DO YOU HAVE THE KEYBLADE?" Roxy says "SHUT UP!!!!!" (pretty much my favorite part of the game ) I think this is going to be expanded on a lot in the future, as we know that sora has that reconnecting thing to do

Roxas isn't a Keyblade Master, he's a Keyblade Wielder. He doesn't have the rank or the power to do that, and neither do Sora or Ven.

 

[Darkrider S]

See the problem is, Terra wasnt a master and was able to pass his keyblade on. Sora inherited his keyblade by you know whos heart, maybe not a traditional inheritance ceremony nontheless. Kairi's inheritance is considered a keyblade inheritance also. Also MX or Vanitas (cant remeber which but it was one of them) said that ven had grown stronger. Now terra was not a master by words, but it was his strength that allowed as a keyblade wielder that allowed him to pass it on. Same thing with Ven, not a master by words, but he was able to defeat his final boss fight against someone with such an advantage over him. So in this sense he is a technical master.

ahh..Sora has Done wayyy more Work than Ven... If you think of all the battles, Boss Battles, Final Boss, Battles AND Secret Boss Battles from KH1, CoM and KH2.. compared to BBS Ven's completes Half on KH2 with a 1/4 of KH1. Also Sora hasn't been declared Master yet but he and Riku are *SPoiler* Proof of this has been shown in Re:Coded Secret ending which came out a day after its release in Japan ><. Therefore Ven can't be classified as a Master until he's taken the Mark of MAstery exam.

 

[Fractured_Heart628]

Thats a pretty good idea actually.
And Ven becoming a master, thereby being capable of passing on a Keyblade is hinted in Birth by sleep itself.
If you look at Ven's towers in the Dive to the Heart, over the course of the game the glass changes. Towards the end of the game as Ven we see the tower for the final time.

Initially, after aid from Sora's heart: http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/File:Awakening_Ventus_1.png
Big SPOILERS Second time: http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/File:Awakening_Ventus_2.png
Third time, though it also appears in the second one: http://kingdomhearts.wikia.com/wiki/File:Awakening_Ventus_3.png
(Sorry for KH wiki links but they are correct and serve a valuable point)
Look around the outside, mark of mastery symbols right, hinting that he has achieved the level of Keyblade master, though not officially recognised as one. Terra himself was never officially recognised, except by Xehanort in an attempt to secure Terra's allegience and yet he was able to pass on the keyblade.

And following Grass's idea of Riku gaining a Keyblade after dueling with Xion, we do actually see him wielding Soul eater all through CoM. But even if he didn't lose his keyblade the first time to Sora, what's to say that this Keyblade he gains now could be a second one, if the theory proves true of course, and this could be the one he gives to Kairi later on?

So, perhaps Ven did pass the Keyblade onto Sora unconsciously. That would explain a whole lot. Perhaps, TAV passed on their ability to wield the Keyblade to SRK simutanteously.

 

[Reika]

See the problem is, Terra wasnt a master and was able to pass his keyblade on. Sora inherited his keyblade by you know whos heart, maybe not a traditional inheritance ceremony nontheless. Kairi's inheritance is considered a keyblade inheritance also. Also MX or Vanitas (cant remeber which but it was one of them) said that ven had grown stronger. Now terra was not a master by words, but it was his strength that allowed as a keyblade wielder that allowed him to pass it on. Same thing with Ven, not a master by words, but he was able to defeat his final boss fight against someone with such an advantage over him. So in this sense he is a technical master.

Riku at this point is not a wielder of the keyblade, so this doesn't prove that he could tell about Xion's keyblade. And also keyblades are just kinda allowed to act weird. I mean what about Riku, he got this random sword and just uses it till his full keyblade kicks in.

Ah, but remember the conversation between Terra and MX?

"You could be my pupil."
"MASTER Terra."

My theory is that, at that moment, in an act to win Terra's trust, MX DID make Terra his official pupil and named him Master, thus making Terra a true Master.
Yes, MX was doing it for his own benefit rather than for Terra's, but the action is still the same, regardless of motive.
Even if my theory is incorrect, Terra was still acknowledged as a Master by his own Master, in everything but title. Ven was not acknowledged as such.

As for Ven defeating a final boss who is much stronger, I don't think being a Master would have had anything to do with it. Sora's done that a ton of times, and he's not a Master, either.

That's the reason why he can wield in KH2.

Unfortunately, Riku doesn't wield a Keyblade until towards the end of KH2. When we see Rikunort during the second visit to The Land of Dragons, he's still wielding his Soul Eater. We don't see him wielding the Way to the Dawn until TWTNW.
So either the RoS with Xion was very slow acting, or it wasn't a RoS at all.

 

[Sign]

See the problem is, Terra wasnt a master and was able to pass his keyblade on.

Terra is technically a Master in all but name. Eraqus acknowledged that at the beginning of the game.

Sora inherited his keyblade by you know whos heart, maybe not a traditional inheritance ceremony nontheless.

The Kingdom Key chose Sora directly over it's intended wielder. Didn't have anything to do with Ven.

Kairi's inheritance is considered a keyblade inheritance also. Also MX or Vanitas (cant remeber which but it was one of them) said that ven had grown stronger.

Not strong enough to take the exam.

Now terra was not a master by words, but it was his strength that allowed as a keyblade wielder that allowed him to pass it on. Same thing with Ven, not a master by words, but he was able to defeat his final boss fight against someone with such an advantage over him. So in this sense he is a technical master.

Unlike Terra, his strength was never acknowledged to be at Master level. His four years of training can't really compare to Terra's and Aqua's, who, arguably, might have been training since they were children. In any case, a significantly longer period of time.

ahh..Sora has Done wayyy more Work than Ven... If you think of all the battles, Boss Battles, Final Boss, Battles AND Secret Boss Battles from KH1, CoM and KH2.. compared to BBS Ven's completes Half on KH2 with a 1/4 of KH1.

I don't doubt Sora's strength, but he did have party members you know. Ven fought alone for almost his entire journey, save for a few select battles.

Also Sora hasn't been declared Master yet but he and Riku are *SPoiler* Proof of this has been shown in Re:Coded Secret ending which came out a day after its release in Japan ><.

And you're sure that the desperation and necessity for another Master has nothing to do with this :\

Therefore Ven can't be classified as a Master until he's taken the Mark of MAstery exam.

Or at the very least, recommended for one.

 

[HeartSeams]

My theory is that, at that moment, in an act to win Terra's trust, MX DID make Terra his official pupil and named him Master, thus making Terra a true Master.

"...No matter how Master Xehanort flatters him he is not a Keyblade Master."~Nomura

 

[gelandporn]

Unfortunately, Riku doesn't wield a Keyblade until towards the end of KH2. When we see Rikunort during the second visit to The Land of Dragons, he's still wielding his Soul Eater. We don't see him wielding the Way to the Dawn until TWTNW.
So either the RoS with Xion was very slow acting, or it wasn't a RoS at all.

See: BbS Kairi
See: BbS Riku

Neither of them got a keyblade right after that rite was performed on them. Hell, Kairi still doesn't have a keyblade.
So time isn't really an issue.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Yeah, as I understand it, that keyblade inheritance ceremony only qualifies the recipient to wield a keyblade of her/his own for sure someday.
The recipient still has to wait until a keyblade itself chooses her/him.
For one who doesn't had that ceremony it's a gamble if a keyblade chooses him/her, mattering solely on the strength of heart, but with that ceremony you're guaranteed to eventually get one...but when exactly is another story.

 

[Reika]

"...No matter how Master Xehanort flatters him he is not a Keyblade Master."~Nomura

Ah, I didn't know about that. Thanks for clearing it up. =)

See: BbS Kairi
See: BbS Riku

Neither of them got a keyblade right after that rite was performed on them. Hell, Kairi still doesn't have a keyblade.
So time isn't really an issue.

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. I retract my argument then.

 

[KeyofEvil'sBane]

Yeah, as I understand it, that keyblade inheritance ceremony only qualifies the recipient to wield a keyblade of her/his own for sure someday.
The recipient still has to wait until a keyblade itself chooses her/him.
For one who doesn't had that ceremony it's a gamble if a keyblade chooses him/her, mattering solely on the strength of heart, but with that ceremony you're guaranteed to eventually get one...but when exactly is another story.

Actually, to be a little more specific, I think success of the rite of pasage only proves that a keyblade might choose you some day. It can't guarantee anything, and its even possible to fail. However, it still might be possible on rare occasions to gain one without the RoS (example Sora)

 

[kingdomkey96]

no but terra was at a master level.
and sora didnt get his keyblade from ven, everyone knows this.

Well in that case you can't just assume that roxas wasn't at keyblade master level either...

 

[Sign]

Well in that case you can't just assume that roxas wasn't at keyblade master level either...

Sure we can. BBS proved several times over just how much the current wielders have yet to learn compared with those with proper training. And Terra's Mastery level was acknowledged, by his own Master. All he didn't have was the official title, because Eraqus was all "U HAZ DURKNESS. DURKNESS BAD ".

 

[kingdomkey96]

Sure we can. BBS proved several times over just how much the current wielders have yet to learn compared with those with proper training. And Terra's Mastery level was acknowledged, by his own Master. All he didn't have was the official title, because Eraqus was all "U HAZ DURKNESS. DURKNESS BAD ".

What has bbs shown that they can do that sora and by extension roxas can't do? A few flashy moves? I mean sora did beat ansemSoD and xemnas both who are pretty much terra's or MX's strength if you know what I mean..

 

[gelandporn]

Before anyone brings up, "Well if Sora is at the level of a Master, shouldn't Leon and/or Jack Sparrow be his successor?," I think there's an easy way to dodge the bullet with those two.

In Leon's case, while it's up in the air as to Sora's Mastery of the keyblade now, I really, really, really doubt that Sora was at the level of a Master... when he had just received the keyblade. Leon touched the Keyblade, definitely, but no way in hell was Sora a Master at the start of the game.

But, yeah, given how Terra attained the power of a master without the official rank, you can't say definitively that Sora (or even Ven, for that matter) isn't a master.

As for Jack Sparrow, bear in mind that the Rite only works if the recipient is worthy. That is, they need a strong enough heart. Needless to say, I don't think Jack Sparrow, who shows us many signs of cowardice and betrayal for the sake of saving his skin, is qualified for the Keyblade.

 

[Reika]

What has bbs shown that they can do that sora and by extension roxas can't do?

... have a Master? I think the importance of having one was shown in BBS.
And considering the RE:Coded secret ending, I think it's safe to say that Yen Sid has taken on the role of temporary Master to Sora and Riku, thus giving reason to them becoming Masters in the future.

I could be wrong on this, of course; I was, obviously, wrong on two other points previously in this thread. But if there's one thing Sora and Roxas lack, that all previous Masters had, were Masters of their own. I think it could prove to be a hindrance in Sora's level.

 

[Smile]

In Leon's case, while it's up in the air as to Sora's Mastery of the keyblade now, I really, really, really doubt that Sora was at the level of a Master... when he had just received the keyblade. Leon touched the Keyblade, definitely, but no way in hell was Sora a Master at the start of the game.

Another thing to keep in mind when dealing with Leon (and possibly Yuffie, lawl, someone had to carry Sora and his Keyblade...) is that Sora wasn't the KK's proper Wielder at the time. Namely, even if Sora was capable at the time, which I doubt it, I doubt he was a proper Master if only for that reason.

As for Jack Sparrow, bear in mind that the Rite only works if the recipient is worthy. That is, they need a strong enough heart. Needless to say, I don't think Jack Sparrow, who shows us many signs of cowardice and betrayal for the sake of saving his skin, is qualified for the Keyblade.

I doubt that as far as the canon is concerned, we have any party members who lack strong Hearts. I'd sooner call him self-providing and selfish rather than a coward since it's not that he doesn't man up to the challenges - he just does it when there's more profit in it than risk. True cowards won't even do that.
That aside, they basically put everything they'd ever need to excuse Jack becoming a Wielder, what with
1) holding Sora's Keyblade
2) That horrid joke about him and Sora being similar
3) Him declaring he'd find a way to Wield.

It's true he's not the best protagonist ever, but it'll also not be the only time in which Disney charas had their characters rewritten in KH (Ugh @ KH2's Meg). It'll be KH's Jack, not the one from the movies, which is something to keep in mind.

 

[gelandporn]

We're talking about the same man who goes on to trade 100 souls for his debt to Davey Jones, including Will Turner. He also abandons his own crew to save his own hide.

Yeah, I don't really see him being a Keyblade wielder, regardless of the purported difference in characterization.
I don't think strength of heart has anything to do with the choice of party member. If that were the case, they would have gone with Will.

 

[Smile]

We're talking about the same man who goes on to trade 100 souls for his debt to Davey Jones, including Will Turner. He also abandons his own crew to save his own hide.

You're assuming they'll stick by the movie series' plot, something which they might not do to such an extent.

I don't think strength of heart has anything to do with the choice of party member. If that were the case, they would have gone with Will.

While I admit it's pretty obvious Jack was the party member due to his popularity, that doesn't change the fact he helped them, sided with the "good guys" against the Organization, and at the end of that world, was basically accepted as a 'good pirate'.
He fights the good fight and sailed off to learn how to use a Keyblade. I think it's pretty hopeless unless they actually bother to do something right in the seri- *bursts laughing*

 

[gelandporn]

You're assuming they'll stick by the movie series' plot, something which they might not do to such an extent.

I don't have to. Jack Sparrow is Jack Sparrow, regardless of whether or not they choose to include that.
I'm sorry, but while I agree that they do sometimes make characters somewhat OOC, they wouldn't fcuk up the characterization that bad, and it's far more of an assumption on your part.

While I admit it's pretty obvious Jack was the party member due to his popularity, that doesn't change the fact he helped them, sided with the "good guys" against the Organization, and at the end of that world, was basically accepted as a 'good pirate'.

And this has absolutely nothing to do with him being strong hearted. He was, as you pointed out, in it for his own intention, which has no correlation to strength of heart. You don't have to be a good person to have a strong heart.

 

[Smile]

And this has absolutely nothing to do with him being strong hearted. He was, as you pointed out, in it for his own intention, which has no correlation to strength of heart. You don't have to be a good person to have a strong heart.

Which is why, basically, Jack has no reason to NOT be strong Hearted :v you basically supported my point when I half shot it in the foot.

Besides, they need more Wielders for the upcoming Keyblade War II >_>