• Hello everybody! We have tons of new awards for the new year that can be requested through our Awards System thanks to Antifa Lockhart! Some are limited-time awards so go claim them before they are gone forever...

    CLICK HERE FOR AWARDS

Did anyone dislike Xion?



REGISTER TO REMOVE ADS
Status
Not open for further replies.

Goldpanner

KHI Site Staff
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
2,517
Awards
11
Website
twitter.com
I like Xion,but it's more out of desperation than anything else. I've been dying for a female protagonist to have some semblance of character development, and not exist solely to be a damsel in distress/ love interest waiting for some guy to save her etc. I'll take the character with strong development that can save her own ass then the Kairi and Namine's of the series. However, I'll take Aqua over any of them. Larxene to, but she's an antagonist.

Anyway, I do see why you and others don't like her. She's a marysue and pointless in the overall Kh mythos.

Plays devils' advocate.

Marysue-

14 member of organization 13.
Wields a key-blade.
Looks exactly like Kairi.
Instant bff with Axel and Roxas
Sympathy sue- was made from beginning , middle, and end for people to feel sorry for her.
It was her game featuring Roxas not the other way around.
Bottom-line-She's pretty much a walking fan-fiction.

Answered questions that were already answered in Kh2.

Why can Roxas duel-wield? Who seriously cared about this? Of all the unanswered plotholes in the series they go with this one that wasn't really one to begin with. Riku explained it just fine. Roxas could wield the key-blade because he's Sora 's nobody. Who cares about the number wielded. Key-blade is key-blade.

Xigbar knew other wielders?
Confirmed by Xigbar himself in Kh2.

Replicas Exist?- Got that in Com.

Pointless-
Did we really need yet another clone of Sora? Roxas had that covered, and if we needed a female version well technically Namine fit the bill for that as well.

Again I like Xion,but I do see where the people who don't are coming from.

Word. Some more things people smarter than I have said:

risachantag on dA said:
...well known Mary Sue drama devices.

The accused is charged with the following:

3 counts of fainting into the arms of Roxas/Axel
3 counts of being unconscious for extended periods of time solely to have Roxas worry over her
1 extended count of being unable to fight and requiring Roxas to do all her fighting for her, until fixed by the ~magical power of friendship~
3 counts of defeating massive bosses/other organisation members in one hit
At least 3 counts of causing conflict between Roxas and Axel
3 counts of running away/going missing and needing to be dragged back by Roxas/Axel
Many Many Many counts of angsting in her room and not talking to anyone for extended periods
1 count of a dramatic, tragic and unnecessarily sparkly death scene in Roxas's arms.

rallamajoop on LJ said:
You see, one thing that did strike us during the very first rounds of Xion-bitching is that complaining about her Sue-ish tendencies was maybe a bit disingenuous considering that I've been affectionately referring to Sora as the Intergalactic Mary Sue From Hell for ages. I mean, think about it – the guy spends most of his time flying from one barely-reinvented Disney world to the next, making friends and helping save the day. That's pretty much textbook Sue activity, and yet I like Sora. A lot. So what makes the difference?

It's a lot of factors, but the main one (for us at least) is that Sora manages to be endearing despite his Sue-ish tendencies, rather than being defined by them alone. It's not hard to see what Squeenix and Disney were trying to do with the KH series – Sora is very much born from the childhood fantasy we all had at some point of getting to travel to the worlds of all those Disney movies (or whatever else our favourite story might have been as a kid) and make friends with our favourite characters. But for me personally, and an impressively large number of other KH fans who've variously outgrown Disney or otherwise become disillusioned the company over the years, this is not a selling point. In fact, quite a bit of disgust at the idea of playing 'a Disney game' kept us from getting into the series at all for years. Sora does also get to cosy up to a lot of Final Fantasy characters, which is a whole lot more up our fanservice alley, but what played the biggest part in getting us to finally give the game a chance was the realisation that the KH series had some likeable new characters, and a really good story. Not to mention gorgeous graphics and enjoyable gameplay, but characters and plot will always be my one big weakness.

[...] He's in many ways the stereotype of the dumb, well-intentioned hero – chosen by destiny for the usually arbitrary 'strength of the heart'-type characteristics. But his stupidity rarely hits the point of being offensive – by KHII, he's being allowed to give good advice and make good calls (see, for example, his efforts to get Hercules out of his emo-phase, or his justified reluctance not to trust the parrot). Sora's been dealt a rough hand – torn from his home, separated from his friends, dumped with the weight of the universe on his shoulders – and just when he thought it was over and he could go home, sent straight back into the fray for another round. And yet he never complains about the unfairness of his lot, and rarely takes more than a few glum moments here or there to angst about it. No matter how many worlds he visits or how many friends he makes, he never loses his sense of wonder, never makes you doubt he genuinely cares about each of them, but never long loses sight of his own goal of finding those two really important friends he grew up with again. Sora, in short, is a good person, but without becoming so perfect he becomes unbelievable. A few Sue-ish traits can't even make a dent in that.

Xion, alas, is not nearly so inoffensive.

Whereas Sora may have been born from childish fantasies of meeting fictional characters and having fun, Xion is the kind of Sue people start writing when the crushing angst of puberty is upon them. She exists not to meet wonderful people, help them out and have fun, but to be told by all the good guys what a wonderful special little snowflake she is, and victimised by everyone else to make the us feel sorry for her. The story is no longer about how wonderful all the worlds she's experiences are, it's about how wonderful she is. This is narcissism of a far less innocent kind. To add insult to injury, unlike Sora, innocently Sue-ing himself into a bunch of old AU Disney movies, Xion is Sue-ing herself into a series I genuinely enjoy – and that usually has far better writing than that.

There are two more characters from the KH series who sometimes get accused of Sue-ism: Roxas and Namine, and the accusations aren't entirely unfounded. Both are, pretty much by definition, pale shadows of established characters (Sora and Kairi respectively), introduced to the series well after most of the main cast with a heavy side order of angst about how neither were 'meant' to exist at all. For which matter, the entire plotline revolving around the Nobodies of CoM and KHII was not so much as foreshadowed in the first game, and when I initially heard about this (surprisingly humanoid and frequently prettyboy) new group of enemies I was initially a little skeptical that, with so much left unresolved from KHI, the producers might be adding one plot element too many. On this point I can only say I was proven happily wrong. Roxas and Namine manage to just squeeze in under the same category.

Out of the two of them, accusations of Sue-ishness probably suit Namine best, who not only has to be rescued princess-style from the badguys and is heavily implied to have at least a bit of a thing for Sora, she quite literally rewrites Sora's history to accommodate herself as a long-forgotten childhood friend. What redeems her is that Namine is that she's really no more than an innocent pawn, being used by the real badguys to manipulate Sora, and the inherrent falseness of everything she's doing to him is pretty much the entire point of it. She's ultimately not so much a real Sue as a cautionary tale to show what's wrong with Sues, and, like Sora, she's endearing enough that I love her anyway. (And I have to say, when you see that page from the otherwise crack-tastic CoM manga of all four of them on the beach together – Sora, Riku, Kairi and Namine – you know it's a lie but it's still so cute that goddamn, you want it to be true.)

When it comes to Roxas, who takes over from Sora as main character in the early part of the game, it's worthwhile keeping in mind that not everyone playing KHII will have played KHI, so there's real practical value to starting the player off with a character who's as unfamiliar with The Story So Far as many of the players will be. Roxas also ties into events from the previous games (Sora's transformation into a Heartless and memory loss) enough to have some point in proceedings. More importantly, he never comes close to taking over the plot – after the introductory sequence, he's seen again only barely long enough to give his story some needed resolution.

The real shame of Days might be that after such a long history of giving us characters with a few Sue-ish traits but enough redeeming features to make them likeable, they've gone and gotten it so very wrong in the latest instalment. There is nothing to Xion the series hasn't done before. She's a Nobody (Roxas, Namine) Organisation member (Roxas, etc), created by a slightly more unusual method than normal (Namine) by some kind of cloning process (the Riku Replica), connected to Sora (Roxas) and Kairi (Namine), connected to Sora's memory loss (Roxas, Kairi, Namine) and ulimately screwed into non-existence by a combination of Organisation disinterest and Sora's return (Roxas). In short, she's a female Roxas, with a couple of other overused character traits thrown in for flavour. Oh yeah, and a whole lot more angst.

'Cause lord knows what Org 13 always needed was more angst amiright?

I have had this argument before, and it boiled down to: I hate the reasons she was included (self-insertion opportunity), which means all the cues that are supposed to make me like her only annoy me.
 

NEOS

New member
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
5
I just bought but i have to ask is xion that kind of charcter thats just there but a plot revoles around her
 

Smile

Codename: D
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
16,306
Awards
5
Age
37
Location
Going to deliver Binks his sake
Website
www.fanfiction.net
I love how people hate on Xion for being a Mary Sue when most of the things that supposedly make her one are stuff just about every other character in the series is guilty of.

3 counts of being unconscious for extended periods of time solely to have Roxas worry over her

I'd sooner blame this on Roxas. You know, I don't see anyone holding it against Sora that he was asleep for a year with Riku worrying sick over him and all that :\

1 extended count of being unable to fight and requiring Roxas to do all her fighting for her, until fixed by the ~magical power of friendship~

3 counts of defeating massive bosses/other organisation members in one hit

Yeah, because taht never happened to Sora or Riku or Mickey or...

At least 3 counts of causing conflict between Roxas and Axel

I fail to see why Roxas getting pissy as hell over Axel doing what he could is Xion's fault.

Seriously. I never said she wasn't cliche nor that she wasn't redundant - but it's Kingdom Hearts. Everyone are like that :\
 

8298906

New member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
783
Location
being chocolate brown
It's good to see people hate characters based on other character's stupid decisions and gameplay elements that don't really involve that character :\

well you have your opinion and i have mine.


I HATE HER I HATE HER I HATE HER!!!!!!!!!!!!

___________________________________________


YouGotMeFuckedUp.gif



You got me F*ck up
 

Goldpanner

KHI Site Staff
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
2,517
Awards
11
Website
twitter.com
Smile said:
I'd sooner blame this on Roxas.

I fail to see why Roxas getting pissy as hell over Axel doing what he could is Xion's fault.

Who said it was 'Xion's' or 'Roxas' fault? Xion and Roxas do not exist.

'Roxas getting pissy' is a choice made by the writers to further the plot. Much of the plot revolves around Xion. The devices used to further develop this Xion-based plot, listed, are very common to those in stories involving mary sues.

The use of these devices is bad writing.

I'm not blaming 'her'. I am saying that the inclusion of a character like Xion is bad writing, which is sad to see in a series I love, and therefore I dislike her inclusion.
 
Last edited:

Smile

Codename: D
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
16,306
Awards
5
Age
37
Location
Going to deliver Binks his sake
Website
www.fanfiction.net
And as I wrote more - what you see as "bad writing" in Xion's case is ironically found in abundance in about every single character any of us loves. So holding it against her seems ridiculous to me. If that's what pisses you off, you should be pissed off with Roxas and so many other characters being involved in the same devices which are cliche as a general role.
She's not worse off than any other character in the series, aside from the fact the role she was given is one the fandom hated before they even glanced at her as a character.
 

destinykh

The Troll
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
1,210
Awards
2
Location
Sinking into the light with a heart of pure darkne
'Roxas getting pissy' is a choice made by the writers to further the plot. Much of the plot revolves around Xion. The devices used to further develop this Xion-based plot, listed, are very common to those in stories involving mary sues.

I don't get this. True, Xion was a plot device to get Roxas out of the Organization.But at least she was a plot device which set the events of the game in motion due to her own actions. She started out as a plot device, but her actions shaped the story to come. The devices used to further her plot were all from the characters' decisions and choices. That isn't bad writing. If you wanna see bad writing, see Kairi, whose entire plot is dictated by outside forces, not by her own choices. Sometimes is not the idea of a character, but how it is pulled off.
 

Smile

Codename: D
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
16,306
Awards
5
Age
37
Location
Going to deliver Binks his sake
Website
www.fanfiction.net
Sometimes is not the idea of a character, but how it is pulled off.

True that. Nowadays it's just about impossible to pull off something truly "original". Even most "Mary Sues" aren't really Sues, but sadly, just overdone. And you know we're talking about an overdone story here and not a true Sue when most people dislike Xion for her plot role and impact than she herself, which is what most people dislike. A true Sue would get things going in a Sueish way due to her Sueish nature, and that is what people would complain about - not what "the writers chose to do with her".
 

*TwilightNight*

Bronze Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
2,213
Awards
6
Age
34
It doesn't matter if Xion is a Sue or not (or is it Stu?). This has become a sort of staple that comes with disliking characters heavily, since "Mary Sue" has a negative connotation into it, as well as the definition itself being constructed by other different people as to what makes one. Regardless, despite the reasons people list to hate her, and claim as it being a Mary Sue, are still, technically, reasons to hate her. So while it might not fit the Mary Sue stereotype completely, they dislike the character for those said things anyway. That sure as hell isn't going to change.

And that's all I have to say, since I think my stance on Xion has been clear for the actual topic. Though, it is rather interesting to see the fandom so broken over a character like that (if anything, at least it stirred something up). The flame wars are the best xP. DA takes the cake on that.

But honestly, we should all move on. We have Aqua now x3.
 

Smile

Codename: D
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
16,306
Awards
5
Age
37
Location
Going to deliver Binks his sake
Website
www.fanfiction.net
It doesn't matter if Xion is a Sue or not (or is it Stu?). This has become a sort of staple that comes with disliking characters heavily, since "Mary Sue" has a negative connotation into it, as well as the definition itself being constructed by other different people as to what makes one. Regardless, despite the reasons people list to hate her, and claim as it being a Mary Sue, are still, technically, reasons to hate her. So while it might not fit the Mary Sue stereotype completely, they dislike the character for those said things anyway. That sure as hell isn't going to change.

If you hate her at least call it by its name :\ like you said, it's easy waving around the Mary Sue stigma. However, it's not really all that justified.

But honestly, we should all move on. We have Aqua now x3.

Sayings like this are what makes me wish she'd crash and burn, as high as my hopes for her are :\
 

Rix

:)
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Messages
4,357
Awards
2
Age
35
And who knows? Aqua might be the biggest Sue of them all in the end :/
 

*TwilightNight*

Bronze Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2005
Messages
2,213
Awards
6
Age
34
If you hate her at least call it by its name :\ like you said, it's easy waving around the Mary Sue stigma. However, it's not really all that justified.

Except people don't. As I said, the definition of a Mary Sue from its original has been highly broken down, and reconstructed. So much, that what constitutes one depends on that person's POV, and what he/she thinks. To the point where it's been debated constantly, and it still is. So there's no real incentive to say one is wrong. To them, it's right. It doesn't help that with Xion said to be a Mary Sue, they will believe they are more correct, cause others share the same factors of what makes her one in the end. Presented in this thread alone, even.

Sayings like this are what makes me wish she'd crash and burn, as high as my hopes for her are :\

The fact that she's not everything the typical Kairis have had, makes her a welcomed addition to the team. Just like Larxene was a breath of fresh air being the complete opposite of them.

With the notion that she doesn't reek of bull, and pulls off the heroine factor that was since long missing, that's enough to get her on my list of epic, and for me to actually look forward to the character. Unlike Days.
 

Goldpanner

KHI Site Staff
Staff member
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
Messages
2,517
Awards
11
Website
twitter.com
And as I wrote more - what you see as "bad writing" in Xion's case is ironically found in abundance in about every single character any of us loves. So holding it against her seems ridiculous to me.

I don't understand what you mean about 'holding it against her'. She doesn't exist to hold things against. I hold it against the one who came up with Xion's name and wrote the scenario that shaped her character; Ms Kanemaki, who wrote the novels.

If that's what pisses you off, you should be pissed off with Roxas and so many other characters being involved in the same devices which are cliche as a general role.

The thing is, it didn't seem so bad when, for example, Roxas was a stereotypical 'angsty brat', because it was just him. Hayner, Pence and Olette balanced him out, not being particularly angsty themselves. Axel was, but the angsty scenes between them were interesting because we didn't understand them 100% yet and wanted to find out more, and because they didn't drag on.

And the other thing is, the reason Roxas was written the way he was in the first place was to appeal to girls. He has trendier clothes and less whacked out hair than Sora, lived in a normal town, had a lot of angsty drama that revolved around friendship, and is voiced by Uchiyama Kouki: all things designed to appeal to crushing girls.

No one can say this is not a cliche way to design a character. However, the concept of adding pretty boys in to attract girls doesn't annoy me all that much. You can bag it out however you want, but different things annoy different people.

Xion was also designed to appeal to girls, which is why she also has a lot of angtsy drama revolving around friendship. However, she was not designed for crushing; she was designed for projecting. She is written into painfully cliche situations that those girls attracted to Days because of the pretty boys would squee over, wishing it was them, and finally able to have proof that YES, Axel really would hang out with a little girl like me--um, Xion! Yes, Roxas really is a nice guy who would love and take good care of me--uh, Xion! And Riku would hold me in his arms--ah, I mean Xion! See, it's really possible for a little girl to be in the Organisation! You don't have to be an evil witch like Larxene! I could even fight with my very own keyblade! And sure some people would be nasty to me... but that only makes the pretty boys worry about me! And fight over me! Uwaa~

She's not worse off than any other character in the series, aside from the fact the role she was given is one the fandom hated before they even glanced at her as a character.

'Worse off' varies from person to person. It's just something that I really hate. Evidently it doesn't annoy you, and characters like Roxas annoy you more.
 

decoyboy320

New member
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
32
Age
28
i was actually hopping she would die early but then as soon as she left roxas those sea shells i started liking her

but yeah she needed to die
 

Byronic Hero

Resonance of Darkness
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
5,737
Awards
1
Age
33
I didn't like her. She seemed like a plot device. I mean there was no real reason for being there in the first place. I was hoping that her appearance would have something major to do with the story. Come to find out that she's just a replica?

Come on, that sounds like a cop out to me.
 

Smile

Codename: D
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
16,306
Awards
5
Age
37
Location
Going to deliver Binks his sake
Website
www.fanfiction.net
I don't understand what you mean about 'holding it against her'. She doesn't exist to hold things against. I hold it against the one who came up with Xion's name and wrote the scenario that shaped her character; Ms Kanemaki, who wrote the novels.

Actually, Nomura seems to be the one who came up with the concept of the reason for Roxas leaving the org would be a girl his age. Which did make me wanna gag in his general direction.

And the other thing is, the reason Roxas was written the way he was in the first place was to appeal to girls. He has trendier clothes and less whacked out hair than Sora, lived in a normal town, had a lot of angsty drama that revolved around friendship, and is voiced by Uchiyama Kouki: all things designed to appeal to crushing girls.

No one can say this is not a cliche way to design a character. However, the concept of adding pretty boys in to attract girls doesn't annoy me all that much. You can bag it out however you want, but different things annoy different people.

Xion was also designed to appeal to girls, which is why she also has a lot of angtsy drama revolving around friendship. However, she was not designed for crushing; she was designed for projecting. She is written into painfully cliche situations that those girls attracted to Days because of the pretty boys would squee over, wishing it was them, and finally able to have proof that YES, Axel really would hang out with a little girl like me--um, Xion! Yes, Roxas really is a nice guy who would love and take good care of me--uh, Xion! And Riku would hold me in his arms--ah, I mean Xion! See, it's really possible for a little girl to be in the Organisation! You don't have to be an evil witch like Larxene! I could even fight with my very own keyblade! And sure some people would be nasty to me... but that only makes the pretty boys worry about me! And fight over me! Uwaa~

I am so glad that while I do think "outside" the games on some issues... I don't go that far XD;

'Worse off' varies from person to person. It's just something that I really hate. Evidently it doesn't annoy you, and characters like Roxas annoy you more.

Because I don't follow your views of "they don't exist". A story to me is meaningless unless I can get some emotional attachment from it, and once that applies, personal preferences, beliefs and views come into play. So when Roxas hates on Axel because Axel attacked Xion - 1) to protect Roxas from her, 2) after a whole mission in which Roxas went around beating Xion up himself, and when Kairi, supposed childhood friend to both Sora and Riku tells Sora to leave Riku behind, it annoys me a lot more than any cliche development or "intended" character design, as so long as something is pulled off well, I don't care for what they were intended to be. Hence why Roxas's hypocritical behavior about friendship irks me, as much as I see where he's coming from, what with not even being a year in existence and all. Hence why no, just because Kairi loves Sora, I can't accept her cancelling out the rest of the world. Because that's where quality is sacrificed for the sake of the concept.
Xion's concept might be lacking - and again, I still hate Nomura for being an idiot that plans stories based on "zomfg I want it to be a girl that made him up and leave" - but at least I like what he went and did with that crappy concept.

I was hoping that her appearance would have something major to do with the story.

Let's have this discussion again once the series is over and they didn't do anything more with her :\ seriously, Days didn't really leave room for her to have too much importance\impact based on what we know. But hell the possibilities didn't end the instant Xion vanished from the screen.
*hugs her "Xion's tied to Riku's wielding" theory*
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top