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I'm sure Nomura would have some help when it came to writing those kinds of scenes.

After all, the "Who will I have ice cream with?!" line in the middle of the heartfelt scene of Days ruined it in a way
If memory serves right, I think he said in an interview that he himself wrote the scenes for Days, something along the lines of having a diet of canned food so that he would have to distract himself and could focus on writing.

But really, that piece of the script is the localization's team fault. It's not the first time they ruined something: Dilin? Bleig?
 

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There could be homosexual relationships in KH, but I always felt that Riku/Sora and Roxas/Axel were just close male friendships. I don't really understand why close males are automatically targeted to be a yaoi couple or something; why can't two men just be really close friends?

To be fair i don't always assume these things when it comes to games anime etc but when i look at sora riku axel and roxas something in my heat tells me this could happen and from the way they act to another im sure im not the only person in the world who thinks so as
 

HeartSeams

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I agree that it's possible, it's very possible. It just seems that every close male relationship is cause for the two to become romantically involved and I don't understand that.
I think it's mostly just because the male relationships stand out so much. There's a lot of basis for them to have a "more than friends" relationship because they are showcased so much. Like, compared to the straight pairings/friendships, the guy ones get like 5x more screen time (and sometimes their scenes are a little iffy). I think if the straight friendships had been shown more, than the male ones wouldn't have stood out so much.
 

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I agree that it's possible, it's very possible. It just seems that every close male relationship is cause for the two to become romantically involved and I don't understand that.

Depends if you understand the realm of fanfictions and couple shippings, along with crack pairings.

It's like playing with a nuclear warhead.
 

HeartSeams

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Well, I'm not really interested in looking at this from the realm of "lololol yaoi fangurls". I'd like for us all to have an actual discussion, because I certainly think it is an interesting enough concept. I mean, if we follow the 'fact of life' rule that 10% of every population is gay, then one could assume there -should- be a gay character in KH. Of course that logistic becomes a little frayed when it comes to a creative work, but still.

I don't want there to be a gay character for lololololYaoi reasons, I'd like to see one because I think it would be an interesting dynamic to add to the game that could become quite interesting. Gay characters are showing up more and more in new media such as books and tv shows and movies but for some reason video games still feel a long ways behind.
 

vnnk

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Also i have never seen a homosexual in an mainstream game could someone tell me if they have ?
 

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As HeartSeams so kindly requested I shared my insights on the matter and I'm in the mood for a good rant...

Yes. Most definitely. If not gay, then they're at least Bi-sexual.
I'm talking - Sora and Riku. Lots of Kairi references as it helps prove the point.

I mean, look at KH1. For better or worse, Kairi doesn't really play a role. I mean it. None; zilch. It's all Riku and Sora and their issues.
Now, Sora's an affectionate guy. He befriended Donald and Goofy well enough, opened up to basically everyone he met, even tried reaching out to Xemnas. So of course he'll be worried about Kairi, a girl he's known since childhood.
Let us review Riku's reactions in both times Sora asked about Kairi:
1) "Kairi's coming with us!" While reaching his hand to Sora, with Kairi nowhere in sight, a storm raging, the island's being torn apart, and Darkness is covering the both of them.
I don't think Kairi's coming.
2) "She might be looking for us now!" Either he was really trying to get Sora to not worry about Kairi - which either in the positive or negative aspects of this, is a lot more Riku-Sora than Kairi oriented, or he was really good at acting stupid, seeing how Kairi has zero fighting abilities we know of save beating up Shadow Heartless with a Keyblade Riku gave her, in a universe currently crawling with Heartless, and most likely no transportation abilities.
This is followed by "just leave everything to me". I can't imagine he wants Sora to worry too much in the sense of bother.
And of course, the crown jewel - Maleficent making it quite clear in 30 seconds or less Riku has one insane jealousy issue when Sora's involved. Screw Kairi - Maleficent was telling Riku Sora didn't care about HIM anymore. That he replaced HIM. That Sora's new friends were better than RIKU.

It seems that as far as Riku's concerned, Kairi doesn't play a part. Don't believe me? Fast forward to Monstro and Sora's refusal to kidnap Pinnochio even if it means they might save Kairi.
"You’d rather fight me? Over a puppet that has no heart?"
One might think that at this point Riku should be furious Sora'd abandon Kairi, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The issue of their argument is that basically, Sora chose someone else over Riku again. And if we REALLY want to go the distance, you can argue the puppet that has no Heart is actually Kairi at this point. But even without it, Riku's once again basically saying "you prefer someone else over me".

That makes it quite logical that by the time we got to Neverland, he was basically rubbing it in Sora's face, how Sora's a horrible friend.
"Are they that important to you? More important than old friends?"
At this point you can think he's talking about Kairi, but as I'm hardly the person to take scenes at stand-alone, face value, I remember everything I ranted to you up to now.
'Old friends' would also include - Riku himself, as he's an even older friend than Sora. Kairi, after all, came to the islands a year after BBS, and we all saw what happened in BBS with SoRi. So Riku falls under 'old friends'.
So why bother, you say? Why should Riku carry Kairi around, seemingly cause Sora to feel concern about her, make him worry?
Well, we already saw that Riku was, most likely, jealous of Kairi when it came to Sora since Sora kept asking about her.
So if 'old friends' like Riku aren't important to Sora, he'll hurt him where it hurts most - with another 'old friend', one that Sora asked about.
The thing is it's not even so much saving Kairi at this point as much as it is humiliating Sora, taking Donald and Goofy from him, and the Keyblade as well. Leave him with nothing at all, and Riku as the ultimate winner.

Ties in well enough with his will to be free, I think. Even if it's to be free from Sora. And what better more is that Riku would dump him before Sora'd get to hurt him more. Splendid.

And I do hope I don't need to explain in future installments why Riku's basically gay for Sora to the point of obsession. He's the one Zexion bothered appearing to Riku as to hurt him where it hurts most; Sora's the one who Riku agreed to eventually dirty his hands for and even succumb to the same Darkness he hated so much, if it meant waking him up. And Sora was the one who, despite it all, kept running into Riku because Riku couldn't really stay away.
Let's face it. The games showed me basically no reason why Riku should've stayed behind in KH2 when Kairi asked him to (as he testified in one of the speech-bubbles). Only one - Sora. And it was wanting to be reunited with Sora that won over Riku's will to not be found, making him stay around for longer each time.

Oh and almost getting killed saving Sora from Xemnas. Another beautiful moment. Mmhm.

Well now; that was Riku.
What about Sora?

As I stated before, Sora's an affectionate guy. He befriends flea-ridden lionesses and blonde girls about to be beheaded he just met and saved. So what makes Sora's treatment of Riku, special?
Well he did declare him his best friend and stated that he liked him, even as an adorable innocent four year old.
Also, in some of the aforementioned quotes, Sora's responses also disregard Kairi. Pinnochio is a clear case. Not quite saying Sora doesn't want to save Kairi, but the focus of that scene remains, now and forever, Sora and Riku's own conflict. Riku's the one in the wrong, and even if it means hindering saving Kairi, Sora wants to set Riku straight first.
To top it all, Sora's concern towards Riku is a constant motif throughout the game as opposed to his mentionings of Kairi who split into 1) bursts of nostalgia caused by the fact her Heart's in his Body, and 2) times where he might as well have been thinking about Alice for all the proper establishment presented. As we said - affectionate guy.
And of course, the #1 reason why I can "forgive" Sora's mistreatment of Riku in KH1 - he had Kairi's Heart in his Vessel. Those of us who finished Ven's scenario in BBS know well enough that Ven's Heart being in Sora is a great cause to why Sora is as we know him. Granted, the bond between the boys' Hearts seems to be deeper than between Sora and Kairi's, but it's a bond deep enough to spawn Namine.
Excuse me if I can't REALLY believe Sora was acting fully on his own behalf during KH1 when Kairi was concerned. Hell, this might also in fact explain some of the conflict with Riku to begin with.
And why shouldn't it? See what happened as soon as her Heart was out of his Body? (and, well, his too, but meh)
Kairi was left behind and he went after Riku. Hell, he told her bluntly she was a nuisance and ran off after Riku.
Then, when he had the chance to go back home, to return to his restored world, when he had the chance to rest -
Sorry, Kairi, gotta go, but (going by the manga for what it's worth) I promise I'll bring Riku back to you.
Mmhm. And Riku just told you to look after her.
And what did Sora do? Walk right into a trap because he was certain Riku'd be there. It later changed into Namine but hey - the main SoNami memory is the one of the Promise during the Meteor shower.
1) canNOT be a Kairi Memory due to the timing - she just reached the islands on the night of the meteor shower.
2) Repliku shared the Memory. Namely - both Riku and Sora had that Memory.
So... SoNami is based on SoRiku. Egads.
And of course, KH2. Sora knowing instinctively it was Riku all along whereas even Kairi needed Namine to tell her that. His obsession with the guy. Breaking his reunion with Kairi for the bastard who wanted to kill them all because, chances were - he felt it was Riku even with his eyes open. Of course, the breaking down into a helpless ball of sobs and hiccups and then becoming more energetic than he's been through the entire game. And then agreeing to become the Darkness with Riku.

We also have the whole BFF talk on the beach and even the post-credits scene before Kairi acts the plot device and runs in with the letter. About the closest that came to this, at least in the KH1-CoM-KH2 run, was the SoNami conversations but these two were riddled with plot implications.
SoRiku are the only ones who actually, deep into the game, at the freaking end of it, stopped, turned to each other, and just had a Heart to Heart. No forced comforting, no smiling otherwise the Gummi Ship'll run out of fuel, no "Ki-" "I'll save you!", no nothing. Just pure, honest to god bonding that ended in a form of communication I personally find to be one of the most intimate around -
Comfortable silence.
Who else in the freaking series had that, least of all only in groups of two?

Now I just need someone to point me at those mystery novel bits I heard so much about that had Sora and Riku hugging each other and I can die a happy, happy fangirl.

And why Bi?
Because SoRiku reflects on Rion and SoNami, duh xD

So yeah. Debatable relationship values with Kairi + painfully established obsessions with each other + fun statistics = I wouldn't be surprised if Sora and Riku are KH's Gundam Wing's Duo and Heero, waiting until Nomura'll laugh and nod when asked about their relationship.
 

vnnk

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Well, I'm not really interested in looking at this from the realm of "lololol yaoi fangurls". I'd like for us all to have an actual discussion, because I certainly think it is an interesting enough concept. I mean, if we follow the 'fact of life' rule that 10% of every population is gay, then one could assume there -should- be a gay character in KH. Of course that logistic becomes a little frayed when it comes to a creative work, but still.

I don't want there to be a gay character for lololololYaoi reasons, I'd like to see one because I think it would be an interesting dynamic to add to the game that could become quite interesting. Gay characters are showing up more and more in new media such as books and tv shows and movies but for some reason video games still feel a long ways behind.

Good Example Dumbledore from the Harry potter books
 

Hero

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I agree that it's possible, it's very possible. It just seems that every close male relationship is cause for the two to become romantically involved and I don't understand that.

This. Yeah sure, these characters might get more screen time than others but honestly, people look into this a little too deeply. I blame it on the fan girls. I can't stand them touting random pairs of couples, especially with anime.
 

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To be fair i don't always assume these things when it comes to games anime etc but when i look at sora riku axel and roxas something in my heat tells me this could happen and from the way they act to another im sure im not the only person in the world who thinks so as
I don't assume these things either, that's why I don't really understand why these relationships are perceived as homosexual. I mean, it could happen, definitely... I just didn't think they were acting too relationshippy.

I think it's mostly just because the male relationships stand out so much. There's a lot of basis for them to have a "more than friends" relationship because they are showcased so much. Like, compared to the straight pairings/friendships, the guy ones get like 5x more screen time (and sometimes their scenes are a little iffy). I think if the straight friendships had been shown more, than the male ones wouldn't have stood out so much.
I can understand that; the relationships of Axel/Roxas and Sora/Riku were largely showcased compared to any of the other relationships really. But to me that just spoke volumes for their friendships; it was (to me) comparable to any of my extremely close friendships with females. There are no "feelings" there but there is indeed a close bond. Hence, why I didn't really understand the constant yaoi light that those two friendships constantly attract. I'm not against it, I just don't see it as anything other than a friendship that I would classify as a "bromance".
 

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This. Yeah sure, these characters might get more screen time than others but honestly, people look into this a little too deeply. I blame it on the fan girls. I can't stand them touting random pairs of couples, especially with anime.

I fail to see why. For the most part, this applies for basically every guy-girl friendship ever. SoKai itself is quite a prime example where because Kairi's a girl, suddenly the Paopu's "romantic", her being special to Sora means she's his childhood sweetheart when the most we've seen was a wall drawing, and the two barely get any screen time and proper development.
But because it's a guy and a girl, it's more likely a "relationship" than Sora and Riku, two characters whose trials and tribulations and coming to terms with each other is basically what makes the series go round.


I can understand that; the relationships of Axel/Roxas and Sora/Riku were largely showcased compared to any of the other relationships really. But to me that just spoke volumes for their friendships; it was (to me) comparable to any of my extremely close friendships with females. There are no "feelings" there but there is indeed a close bond. Hence, why I didn't really understand the constant yaoi light that those two friendships constantly attract. I'm not against it, I just don't see it as anything other than a friendship that I would classify as a "bromance".

Again, it's not really all that different from shipping any male with any female. If it's there, if it works, why the hell not, seeing how for the most part, implied or not, nothing's truly set-in-stone canon.
 

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@Smile

Thank you you just made my day with that insanely big post =D

I think I just made MY day with that insanely long post, too.
But that's just how I see it, and why people ship SoRiku - because it's THERE. It's THERE and no one can ever deny it whatsoever. Say Kairi matters, say she doesn't, SoRiku'll still be the very best of friends who were going to become the Darkness together.
Now just twitch the statistics and we're all good.
 

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I fail to see why. For the most part, this applies for basically every guy-girl friendship ever. SoKai itself is quite a prime example where because Kairi's a girl, suddenly the Paopu's "romantic", her being special to Sora means she's his childhood sweetheart when the most we've seen was a wall drawing, and the two barely get any screen time and proper development.
But because it's a guy and a girl, it's more likely a "relationship" than Sora and Riku, two characters whose trials and tribulations and coming to terms with each other is basically what makes the series go round.
To be fair, does everyone assume that Kairi and Sora are going to end up together just because she's a girl? I don't really. I mean, I think Sora brings out the better qualities of Riku and Kairi, and there is fair ground for either character to get together with Sora right now.
I do have a preference on who I would prefer Sora to be with, but I'm definitely not fighting for SoKai in this thread. I'm not fighting for Sora to be with anyone. I just see Riku and Kairi at a friendship position with Sora right now. Same with Axel and Roxas, even with Xion in the mix I still felt that it was simply a friendship and not a romantic aspect.

All of the relationship you described between Riku and Sora throughout KH1 can relate to fights I've had with close friends. For instance, when they make new friends and I feel left behind. That doesn't mean I want to "jump their bones" or anything. Hence, why I simply view everyone as purely at a friendship level in the game.


Again, it's not really all that different from shipping any male with any female. If it's there, if it works, why the hell not, seeing how for the most part, implied or not, nothing's truly set-in-stone canon.
I definitely agree with you there.
 

blackberi

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I can't say whether homosexuality exists within the game or not, but KH definitely stresses the male relationships such as Sora-Riku, Axel-Roxas, as well as Terra-Ven.

Then again, this could be because KH tends to poorly conduct its female characters (lol Kairi) - a lot of them are just there to fill the void, to give a female presence (lol like every character except maybe Nami.) I mean, look at Kairi - main female protagonist of the series and look how often she interacts with other characters - not very often. Not even with Sora, even though the two supposedly hold a close relationship with each other - and when they DO interact it's definetely not on par with say, how Sora and Riku do (the KH2 reunion scene and all that ensues after - heck, Sora seems to forget Kairi's there, he's very attuned with Riku however.) Add this with the fact that a relationship between Riku and Kairi doesn't exist and you get a duo instead of a trio, with Kairi left out of the picture.

I mean, even Aqua suffers from this to some extent as well - the Terra-Ven relationship is given more light (Ven's obsession with finding Terra) than hers with either of the two. Olette and Larxene suffer from this 'forced female presence' syndrome as well.

tl;dr I think it's a very male-dominated series so of course the male relationships would tend to get most of the focus, which does make it out to seem rather homosexual in some cases.
 

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I can't say whether homosexuality exists within the game or not, but KH definitely stresses the male relationships such as Sora-Riku, Axel-Roxas, as well as Terra-Ven.

Ironically, most "shonen" oriented titles do with the females usually being there for romance. Ironically, that means they actually bother with the guys whereas the girls get the "say so".

I mean, even Aqua suffers from this to some extent as well - the Terra-Ven relationship is given more light (Ven's obsession with finding Terra) than hers with either of the two.

I dare say this is actually what might imply it's intentional. With SRK you get the doubt. You're not really truly eternally sure one's important than the other. But with TAV, no way around it. You get a whole Xehanort report saying how Terra means that much to Ven, but Aqua's only good for X-Blade material in the larger scale of things
That's where I once again chip the "could've, didn't" issue I often raise with Riku-Kairi. Either it doesn't matter, thus giving that much more focus to the guys, or it's intentional.
 

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I fail to see why. For the most part, this applies for basically every guy-girl friendship ever. SoKai itself is quite a prime example where because Kairi's a girl, suddenly the Paopu's "romantic", her being special to Sora means she's his childhood sweetheart when the most we've seen was a wall drawing, and the two barely get any screen time and proper development.
But because it's a guy and a girl, it's more likely a "relationship" than Sora and Riku, two characters whose trials and tribulations and coming to terms with each other is basically what makes the series go round.




Again, it's not really all that different from shipping any male with any female. If it's there, if it works, why the hell not, seeing how for the most part, implied or not, nothing's truly set-in-stone canon.

I agree with you partially. SoKai and Roxas/Namine pairings also piss me off, along with the whole romantic Papou thing, but like Toacha said, I feel like its nothing more than a bromance. Just because they've gone through trials and tribulations, or Riku's severe jealousy does not classify a homosexual relationship between them. They've been friends since childhood, and are in fact best friends.

They share a nakama friendship, which this website Nakama - Television Tropes & Idioms defines best:

The relationship is often considered as "more pure", or deeper than mere friendship, but more innocent than romance. After one helps another in danger, gratitude is often dismissed with "Think Nothing Of It — you would have done it for me."
 

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They share a nakama friendship, which this website Nakama - Television Tropes & Idioms defines best:

You can spare the explanation, I've watched my share of One Piece.
But the thing is that it can be taken either which way. Sans the two of them being boys and their relationship POSSIBLY being "only" deep friendship - well why NOT romance? Let's face it, had either one of them been a girl, they'd have been paired up because that's the stuff legendary relationships are made of.
Preferences are a person's right; but way I see it, what bases a friendship is what also bases a relationship, as to me, a good relationship is based on everything a good friendship is.
 

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Ironically, most "shonen" oriented titles do with the females usually being there for romance. Ironically, that means they actually bother with the guys whereas the girls get the "say so".

That is true, good point.

I dare say this is actually what might imply it's intentional. With SRK you get the doubt. You're not really truly eternally sure one's important than the other. But with TAV, no way around it. You get a whole Xehanort report saying how Terra means that much to Ven, but Aqua's only good for X-Blade material in the larger scale of things
That's where I once again chip the "could've, didn't" issue I often raise with Riku-Kairi. Either it doesn't matter, thus giving that much more focus to the guys, or it's intentional.

Agreed. Sure, Aqua cared about them but for the most part Ven was obsessing over Terra and then we had that moment where Terra protected him from Eraqus. Reason why TAV suffered as a trio, imo - felt more like a duo with Aqua left out of the picture.

Misused female characters ftw~

/and while I posted my first message you posted a very long one, which I am still reading *scurries off to continue reading*

They share a nakama friendship, which this website Nakama - Television Tropes & Idioms defines best:

The relationship is often considered as "more pure", or deeper than mere friendship, but more innocent than romance. After one helps another in danger, gratitude is often dismissed with "Think Nothing Of It — you would have done it for me."

I like that idea.
 
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