Spoilers ► Post-MOM Theories

[ZinC Podzzz]

So, question for my fellow KHI users.

How do you feel about potentially abandoning the twilight gang and the wayfinder trio? Letting them have their happy endings and live happily ever after or whatever.

I don't know, I feel the cast is way to big for its own good, I think it's best to just leave them be and call upon them if necessary, but going out of their way to make new games for them feels a bit overkill.

I agree. Don't get me wrong, I love each of those characters. But I don't think there is much left we can do with them, at least at the character growth department. The only things I could see looked into is Lea and Isa with Subject X and Terra now looking after Aqua and Ven, but that's about it.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Huuuuh...

A KINGDOM HEARTS soft-reboot using live action worlds with Riku probably as protagonist, who was the original Kingdom Key wielder, makes a looooooot of sense. Especially if you take into account that this could be a DDD Vol. 2 with Riku/Sora or Riku/Yozora. Hell, maybe a DDD/BBS Vol. 2: Riku/Sora main game, but there's a Secret Episode where you play as Yozora.

Spoiler Show

Honestly, I feel that Yozora is going to be the protagonist for the Verum Rex game with Riku not even being referenced upon until the game's ending just because we don't exactly know what Sora is up to in Quadratum.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

Spoiler Show

Honestly, I feel that Yozora is going to be the protagonist for the Verum Rex game with Riku not even being referenced upon until the game's ending just because we don't exactly know what Sora is up to in Quadratum.

I think the Verum Rex game will come, but right now, I think we'll get DDD Vol. 2 and then KH4

 

[KeyToDestiny]

Spoiler Show

I mean it's possible for both the Verum Rex game and this "DDD2" game to be the same thing. You play as both Riku and Yozora and through here, we learn about Yozora's past, situation, etc. while also dealing with the find and save Sora plot along with saving Nameless Star

 

[astertide]

We know absolutely nothing about Yozora, how do we know that he's even gonna be a protagonist?
He could be an antagonist or anti-hero type character, right?

 

[KeyToDestiny]

Because he's trying to save Sora? Because he's the one Nameless Star is waiting for? Because the Verum Rex game paints him as a hero? Because he's the protagonist of that game? And Riku was basically an anti-hero in CoM yet he was still playable so again that doesn't hurt the chances of Yozora being playable. Also him being an antagonist to Riku doesn't mean much either if that happens. He's clearly Nomura's new bread and butter for the future so him being playable is pretty damn likely.

 

[Face My Fears]

Oy…I spend one day breaking my new laptop in, and ideas are already popping everywhere, from feasible ones to questionably impossible.

I’d agree to that if it wasn’t for the name. Getting the elephant out of the room, blah blah blah Noctis and Versus so on and so forth yadayada, Yozora’s name ultimately stems from a connection to Sora. Other than that white hair and the black clothes, which somehow became a fashion statement since II, I’m still skeptical on who’s tied to who.

Well, KH is referred to as the “unseen land” in the game. It’s most likely they don’t have a KH there, or if there is, it’s most likely unseen too and deep within their world and since it might be unseen, how do they know it’s even there? Unless, of course, the ancient wielders of the past either a) blabbed, or b) some of the were ancestors to the current residents of that unreality. The problem is, and while we don’t know if it is for certain since the characters are only theorizing, that world is beyond light and darkness. If the components aren’t there to begin with, how can the finished product (or origin?) even exist?


No! We are not doing this again. No way.


I’m going to be honest; I’m more interested in Yozora’s story than a bunch of rehashed screw-ups who failed momentously on doing one simple job and sending innumerable child soldiers to their deaths. I don’t care about their war crimes; I’m just bored of them because they should’ve just died a looong time ago.

However, they’re there, Luxu brought them back, and we have a new rulebook on 4D chess. So I have to think about that too.

What I want to know is, why would they want to bring back the Master to that particular point in time, and why couldn’t the Master just do it himself? Luxu’s report implies that not only did he want to bring the others back, but also the Master, who clearly wasn’t missing at all and not trapped in another worldline. The guy practically comes and goes as he pleases, and seems deathless, or at least ageless. Is it because Luxu can body swap and therefore there’s someone to remember the Master? Then why bring the other foretellers back?

I think that’s about it.

Finally, why is the insignia on Yozora’s coat/jacket designed the way it is?

Spoiler Show

The thing about Quadratum is how do you get there? We've seen that the only way to get there, as far as we know, is through The Final World and someone who can open a gateway there (presumably someone who has a memory/connection it). Now it's weird that people who are "unreal" or reside in "fiction" end up in the same Final World as "real" people and ultimately go to the real Kingdom Hearts.

This makes me - again - remember the quote Nomura used that "isn't important" to the series: "don't assume your dreams are just fantasy, if you can imagine a world, believe in it... and dive in." Conveniently used right before the Toy Story trailer (which included Verum Rex in its world) AND is a world based on giving life to fictional characters - AND a world Xehanort was studying - AND a world that Xehanort somehow split into two realities. We assume that Xehanort was studying it for heart stuff, as usual, but what if he was actually studying it to help with the search for Subject X?

What if the future of the series (initially built up by 3D) is "unreal" characters and monsters? The same way that the Unversed are creatures created from negative energy of a person (Vanitas), what if the "Unreal" are created by people's dreams? Whole worlds can be created - like Quadratum.

But how does this all connect to the Foretellers? Maybe the MoM/Ava discovered a way to hide in dreams?

I'm just rambling, but I'm excited to see how this plays out.

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

Spoiler Show

The thing about Quadratum is how do you get there? We've seen that the only way to get there, as far as we know, is through The Final World and someone who can open a gateway there (presumably someone who has a memory/connection it). Now it's weird that people who are "unreal" or reside in "fiction" end up in the same Final World as "real" people and ultimately go to the real Kingdom Hearts.

This makes me - again - remember the quote Nomura used that "isn't important" to the series: "don't assume your dreams are just fantasy, if you can imagine a world, believe in it... and dive in." Conveniently used right before the Toy Story trailer (which included Verum Rex in its world) AND is a world based on giving life to fictional characters - AND a world Xehanort was studying - AND a world that Xehanort somehow split into two realities. We assume that Xehanort was studying it for heart stuff, as usual, but what if he was actually studying it to help with the search for Subject X?

What if the future of the series (initially built up by 3D) is "unreal" characters and monsters? The same way that the Unversed are creatures created from negative energy of a person (Vanitas), what if the "Unreal" are created by people's dreams? Whole worlds can be created - like Quadratum.

But how does this all connect to the Foretellers? Maybe the MoM/Ava discovered a way to hide in dreams?

I'm just rambling, but I'm excited to see how this plays out.

Spoiler Show

Well, we know two ways, at least. First is the one you mentioned, using a local to open a gate then the power of waking to, as Xehanort says "traverse hearts to reach worlds." The second way is how the ancient wielders did it, prior to people from either reality coming into contact with each other and forging connections, whatever way that may have been (maybe using their heart as a guiding key?).

I'm not quite convinced Subject X is in Quadratum. Her story is more tied to the foretellers and the Master than Yozora. As for Xehanort studying the fracturing of a world into two though, there is that. Joshua seems to know more about the case as well, but who knows? Still, why would Ansem SoD ask...Ansem...meh...why would Ansem SoD ask AtW for the whereabouts of "the girl" when AtW was unaware of the existence of Quadratum or unreality in general until way later? It's a reason why I'm skeptical that they're studying the fracturing of a world or finding a path to the "other side" to find Subject X. MX may have known abut Quadratum, but why bother asking AtW then who knew nothing?

If it were created by people's dreams, it would exist in the Realm of Sleep, which is still under the domain of the main worldline. Their conversations have been implying that "unreality" is beyond the reach of what they understand as the components of their World, including dreams. It's something separate altogether, maybe, perhaps something that existed alongside and runs parallel to the main worldline, since the beginning, possibly even pre-KW and world split.

There was that theory running around that the "Unchained Realm" was also dreams, but we don't know if that really was the case. Instead of the unchained realm, the players and new union leaders were trapped into a data world of the Master's making. Ava might've reached the actual unchained realm, she might not have, but we know the player and the new union leaders definitely did not, unless the unchained world turned out to be the Master's constructed datascape after all.

I doubt that unreality was also a datascape, since that is a component of the main worldline, but then again, Verum Rex is a video game that Sora has technically visited before.

I'm getting a headache from all this theorizing. Still fun though. Sorry about shooting down some of the ideas. I'm not trying to come off as an obnoxious fan; it's just that I tend to play devil's advocate sometimes to trim out any inconsistencies, so to speak. But at least, without those inconsistencies, we can find a clearer hypothesis to what could be next.

I'm also excited to see where this all leads.

 

[astertide]

So, aren't there seven realms now?

Light, Darkness, In-Between, Data, Dreams, Memories, "Other Side/Unreality"

//cough cough// s e v e n a g a i n

 

[The_Echo]

Player is the heart inside Yozora's body.
That's not a new theory, just one I continue to be convinced of

Also
The Bouncer's cast will be in Quadratum

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

So, aren't there seven realms now?

Light, Darkness, In-Between, Data, Dreams, Memories, "Other Side/Unreality"

//cough cough// s e v e n a g a i n

Hmmm…I’m not quite sure I’d word it like that. I’m certainly not an expert on Nomura’s thought process, nor as “intelligent” (or cringy) as you-know-who, but from the way I understand it, the cosmology of the series goes like this:

The realms are components or subsets of the known universe, a.k.a. the Sea of Stars/the World, and if you add the abstract dimensions such as “time” or “destiny”, all in all it is called a worldline, and minding my redundancy, is made up of light, darkness, the in-between/twilight, as well as the smaller sets of data, dreams, and memories, from which worlds could also be built.

Since the Other Side is something that is beyond the jurisdiction of those elements, or rather, separated by something that only wielders can pass through with great difficulty, we can hypothesize that it might be another worldline, possibly one that runs alongside the main one. To call it a shadow would discredit it as being beyond the darkness of the main worldline. I think it’d be more apt to say…it’s a mirror with which the other side follows a different set of rules. It’s most likely the “Other Side” did not spring from Scala ad Caelum like other worlds and the realms at large.

At the end, they are all still connected by the Final World, it seems, to which all hearts that could not rest stay until they move on and finally accept the nothingness of death.

TL;DR: The Unreality might be more of an AU of its own than a realm.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

So, aren't there seven realms now?

Light, Darkness, In-Between, Data, Dreams, Memories, "Other Side/Unreality"

//cough cough// s e v e n a g a i n

I don't think we can count Quadratum as a different realm.

Also:

"Another Side, Another Story"

Quadratum, Verum REx

 

[Noivern]

I'm going to write a few thoughts on MoM and my response to the initial feedback I've seen, but I did not read the whole thread yet so I'm not up to date with the discussion.

1. Kairi is getting sidelined again for no real reason. Xehanort himself comments on her strenght and while she is weaker than KH3 Sora and probably Riku as well, we know she is at least on a similar league to Ventus in BBS considering she at least managed to hit that version of the old man, while the golden twink didn't even get to do that. This training argument better pay off because no one else in this franchise minus the Wayfinder Trio went through that ordeal.

2. While some people are happy she's seemingly out of the way for the next game (lol.), I must say this is not true. Riku going alone doesn't mean we'll necessarily play as him next, nor that he is safe. The plot could very well be about Riku not returning in time and Kairi going out to find him and Sora. There's space between the ending of MoM, the secret ending of Re:Mind and whatever is the next game.

3. I'm surprised Star Girl got so much attention at once, but I'm annoyed we have yet to see her appearance. They could have at least dropped a name.

4. Not liking how the Grandmother is suddenly so wise and aware of things like the Final World. I don't think it's suspiscious, but it is very lazy writing. How the heck did she know about the girl? I'm glad they decided to use a Disney character for this, at least.

5. I hope they retcon Hundred Acre Land to be a case of a Fictional World and maybe that's why Sora was able to end up in Quadradum, because he already had contact with the land of Fiction before.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Also
The Bouncer's cast will be in Quadratum

So we have a Sora lookalike named Shion?

The irony.

 

[Tobi]

Well, we know two ways, at least. First is the one you mentioned, using a local to open a gate then the power of waking to, as Xehanort says "traverse hearts to reach worlds." The second way is how the ancient wielders did it, prior to people from either reality coming into contact with each other and forging connections, whatever way that may have been (maybe using their heart as a guiding key?).

Not sure if you meant it included in the power of waking parts, but technically, so it seems, you can also change the world by abusing that power. So technically three.
1. Connection + Final World + Power of waking = the method the traveler has the most control over, since he/she can prepare beforehand, if he/she would want to.
2. Abuse of power of waking = Uncontrollable in the regards to the when and what happens to someone (Sora) seems to be unfavorable.
3. Forging connections = Requires someone to have used one of the previous methods, if the Final World wasnt used as the first contact area. But once Sora and Riku return from Quantum, they could serve as a kind of connection for both sided.

 

[GreyouTT]

"That's the story of the king of truth."
"RECLAIM YOUR HEART"
“After a long fight, weapons have brought great benefits for humanity. But the “KARMA” that sleeps in humans will accelerate further. In the light of the warhead in the night sky, they chose to fight while feeling the pain of their hearts.”
"A journey without a place to return "
"The world is to all humans" [cut off]

The rest of it is:

"The world is to all humans to turn a page.
What is eternal bond."

 

[Idreamaboutcats]

Not sure if you meant it included in the power of waking parts, but technically, so it seems, you can also change the world by abusing that power. So technically three.
1. Connection + Final World + Power of waking = the method the traveler has the most control over, since he/she can prepare beforehand, if he/she would want to.
2. Abuse of power of waking = Uncontrollable in the regards to the when and what happens to someone (Sora) seems to be unfavorable.
3. Forging connections = Requires someone to have used one of the previous methods, if the Final World wasnt used as the first contact area. But once Sora and Riku return from Quantum, they could serve as a kind of connection for both sided.

I completely forgot about that! How ironic. I was so focused on Riku I forgot about Sora. Gross, I’m turning into one of those Reddit fans…

It brings to mind the question though…why would Sora be ejected to an unreachable world, instead of being, you know, straight up erased?

 

[Face My Fears]

I'm going to write a few thoughts on MoM and my response to the initial feedback I've seen, but I did not read the whole thread yet so I'm not up to date with the discussion.

1. Kairi is getting sidelined again for no real reason. Xehanort himself comments on her strenght and while she is weaker than KH3 Sora and probably Riku as well, we know she is at least on a similar league to Ventus in BBS considering she at least managed to hit that version of the old man, while the golden twink didn't even get to do that. This training argument better pay off because no one else in this franchise minus the Wayfinder Trio went through that ordeal.

2. While some people are happy she's seemingly out of the way for the next game (lol.), I must say this is not true. Riku going alone doesn't mean we'll necessarily play as him next, nor that he is safe. The plot could very well be about Riku not returning in time and Kairi going out to find him and Sora. There's space between the ending of MoM, the secret ending of Re:Mind and whatever is the next game.

3. I'm surprised Star Girl got so much attention at once, but I'm annoyed we have yet to see her appearance. They could have at least dropped a name.

4. Not liking how the Grandmother is suddenly so wise and aware of things like the Final World. I don't think it's suspiscious, but it is very lazy writing. How the heck did she know about the girl? I'm glad they decided to use a Disney character for this, at least.

5. I hope they retcon Hundred Acre Land to be a case of a Fictional World and maybe that's why Sora was able to end up in Quadradum, because he already had contact with the land of Fiction before.

OMG! Nomura please defy everyone's expectations and make the next game Master Aqua and Kairi (both playable) going to search for Sora and Riku in Quadratum!

 

[CaptainHuman]

So the first time I saw the ending with Yen Sid, I was somehow convinced he was implying that the other realm the ancient keyblade wielders crossed into (aka the Unchained realm) was the same realm as Quadratum. Like, the Dandelions moved to an alternate reality, changed some stuff, and it eventually grew to be Quadratum. I feel like Chi has always been kinda vague on what the alternate reality *is*, so "unreality" certainly isn't out of the question.

(Rewatching the scene, I see Yen Sid was NOT necessarily implying that, but I think it still checks out.)

 

[Eonstar890]

There exists quite too much to discuss for my brain to accept so I will mainly focus on theorizing what threads can become future plots.

Spoiler Show

1. Riku is officially beginning his search for Sora in the Quadratum (still not over that name reveal)
2. The LoD casts... has a lot of stuff going on now. For one we have Ventus and his exponentially complicated past. His connection to the Foretellers is sure to become important and now that Lauriam is bound to be recompleted.. he'll come hunting. Also now we have Kairi coming to train under Master Aqua (*happy tears*) which bring her into the fold of this story and I REALLY hope they take the opportunity for her and Terra to discuss their shared past. And of course Chirithy is also around now (or at least should be) and the little guy definitely knows more than he lets on. And while there exists no proof of it, I am sure we have not seen the last of good old Vanitas.
3. Similarly to the Wayfinder trio, Sea salt has seen quite an expansion of characters. Namine is with them now as well as Isa, and as we know Lea and Isa still have a certain subject X to find. I could see this going one of two ways, either they decide to resume their search now that they have finally been returned to human form, or they decide to move on with their lives and be happy citizens of twilight town. Namine has room for growth seeing as the source of her powers still remains a mystery.
4. Mickey is setting out on a solo mission to Scala Ad Caelum.... to.. research... fiction????? Literally have no clue what to think of that except it is obviously important since it was the closing scene.
5. Luxu and his foretellers are back and have been back for presumably a whole year... meaning they've had quite sometime to plot. Also they got that infernal black box and Maleficent knows they have the box. We have seen the MoM in Quadratum and Luxu knows what he is planning so I am sure he has been busy at work since regaining his keyblade.

Now I find it hard to believe that all of these could ever be shoved into one title. If it did anything KH3 proved that Normura is not a fan of that. In fact I hope to never see something like KH3 happen again. I think the series would do better if it didn't try so hard to make everything connect to everything else so tightly. My guesses are a title encompassing threads 1 and 4 while another goes over 2 and 5 with 3 being an optional bonus (aka probably won't happen).

Having just finished MoM, I am still in a tizzy with all the new info, but I can't confidently say my expectations were met this time around.