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Roxas?



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PMcKenna13

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Okay, so we all know Roxas was created when Sora sacrificed himself to free Kairi's heart etc...

But my question is how did Roxas get his own body? I mean isn't a Nobody a strong-hearted person's body and soul left behind? But Sora regained his own body shortly after. So what body and soul could Roxas have been using, and if it was Ventus's body then would that mean Ventus went back into Sora's heart during KH2?

Can someone please explain this to me?
 

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Sora did not regained his body... he was basicly a walking Heart... Sora's body did, indeed, go to Roxas. Sora's body is his heart image of him, and this continues until the beginning of KH2
 

PMcKenna13

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I think I understand what your saying.

Spoiler Spoiler Show
 

Rexy

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I think I understand what your saying.

Spoiler Spoiler Show
Exactly, just like every organization member look like their original persona ;)
 

Oracle Spockanort

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Sora did not have a body or soul. He spent most of his time in CoM and up to the beginning of KH2 a walking Heart. After Kairi purified the Darkness around his heart when he spent a brief period of time as a Heartless, he was able to walk around as himself.

I think I understand what your saying.

Spoiler Spoiler Show

You don't need to spoiler tag. Yes, Roxas would have probably looked exactly like Sora if Ven's heart hadn't been asleep in Roxas' body.
 

alexis.anagram

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Sora did not regained his body... he was basicly a walking Heart... Sora's body did, indeed, go to Roxas. Sora's body is his heart image of him, and this continues until the beginning of KH2
My question would be...how? What's the purpose of a Body and Soul if a Heart can just wander around by itself, complete with a tangible form? Why didn't Kairi's Heart simply create an image of Kairi in KH1 and continue to exist like that, rather than taking root in Sora's? Why did MX need to possess Terra's Body? Couldn't he have just released his Heart and then let it create a younger image for himself and do that continuously rather than going to all the effort of stealing someone else's vessel? For that matter, couldn't he just use his Heart inside his current Body to create a younger image of himself which would function in precisely the same way as a younger Body would?

Also, how did Sora's "body" age if it was just an image of himself as he was at the time his Heart was released?

I'm not denying that what you say is true, by the way, those are just questions that the assertion raises for me.
 

Silverslide

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Roxas had to have had his own body or Sora got a new one in some bullshit esque Nomura explanation.

Two bodies existing in different places makes no sense, even within KH.
 

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Two bodies existing in different places makes no sense, even within KH.
I think you mean one body existing in different places makes no sense. I disagree that it couldn't happen in the KH universe (after all, what the frack is Namine made up of?), but I digress.

What makes even less sense to me than Roxas having Sora's Body is Roxas having Sora's Soul. Nomura has stated that the Soul is essentially one's life source. Without it, Sora would have been more or less like the Lingering Sentiment; an even more empty existence than a Nobody, with no will or developed consciousness. Although I realize it's the "official" explanation, the idea that Roxas had Sora's Body and Soul just doesn't match up with what we know about the composition of existence in Kingdom Hearts. :/
 

Silverslide

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Yeah that's what I mean.

Nomura has been dodging this for a while now though, but honestly, fan theories have given better explanations.

I mean Sora didn't ever LOSE his body since he got it back when Kairi brought him back, yet Roxas was born in Twilight Town with his own body. And judging from Lea in a new DDD trailer, nobodies do age and do have the body from their original form.

Shit doesnt make sense.
 

DropDistance

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Sora either got a temporary "body" made out of light from Kairi, or like Rexy said, his heart created an image of his body. Roxas has Sora's actual body and soul, which is essential to be complete. This may be why he couldn't wake up from the sleep pod until he joined with Roxas
 

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I'm pretty sure it said in this character thing for Kairi that her light gave Sora a body based on her memories or something. I can't really remember though
 

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Nomura has been dodging this for a while now though, but honestly, fan theories have given better explanations.
Has Nomura addressed this in any interviews? I missed so many of them between KH2 and the release of Coded/Days/BBS that I feel like I'm constantly playing catch-up.

I mean Sora didn't ever LOSE his body since he got it back when Kairi brought him back,
Well, as it's being conceptualized, Sora didn't actually regain his Body at that point. His Heart just created a corporeal vessel for him to wander around in, without there being any precedence for this in the series and despite there being no apparent explanation at hand for how that works.

yet Roxas was born in Twilight Town with his own body.
See, I always assumed Roxas was just a weird case of existence, the same as Namine. Supposedly, he has Ven's Heart and that's why he looks like Ven, but that would mean the natural process of being born as a Nobody wouldn't apply to him. Besides, how could Sora have unlocked his Heart and Kairi's but somehow failed to unlock Ven's (the implication being that if Roxas was born into Sora's Body, Ven's Heart somehow remained in Sora's Body, causing Roxas to look like Ven WUT)? There aren't any clear answers regarding this.

And judging from Lea in a new DDD trailer, nobodies do age and do have the body from their original form.
Yeah, either Nomura's going to retcon this or the explanation will be that Axel has aged somewhat since regaining his existence as a Somebody towards the end of KH2.

Shit doesnt make sense.
Agreed.

This may be why he couldn't wake up from the sleep pod until he joined with Roxas
Right, but he could run around Castle Oblivion fighting half the Organization and come out the winner.
Also fought Ansem SoD without his Body or Soul.
 

PMcKenna13

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This whole situation just does not make sense to me... Hopefully there will be a better explanation to this in the upcoming games.
 

Grey

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This may be why he couldn't wake up from the sleep pod until he joined with Roxas

I'm pretty sure it is why he couldn't wake up--because he didn't have a body to contain his heart.


If Kairi didn't give Sora a body of light, then his body is basically his Heartless body (as another theory suggests). I doubt that Sora was able to wander around as a floating heart entirely on his own.
 

Gram

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oh boy another one of those questions xD you'll save yourself a headache if you just accept its a plot hole.
sora was a "walking heart" cause the whole concept of nobodies wasnt there yet, thats my opinion anyway.

I'm pretty sure it is why he couldn't wake up--because he didn't have a body to contain his heart.
If Kairi didn't give Sora a body of light, then his body is basically his Heartless body (as another theory suggests). I doubt that Sora was able to wander around as a floating heart entirely on his own.
i thought he couldnt wake cause of his memories being contained in roxas o,0 due to the xion mess.
i like that idea it being his heartless body with a human look xD
 
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My question would be...how? What's the purpose of a Body and Soul if a Heart can just wander around by itself, complete with a tangible form? Why didn't Kairi's Heart simply create an image of Kairi in KH1 and continue to exist like that, rather than taking root in Sora's? Why did MX need to possess Terra's Body? Couldn't he have just released his Heart and then let it create a younger image for himself and do that continuously rather than going to all the effort of stealing someone else's vessel? For that matter, couldn't he just use his Heart inside his current Body to create a younger image of himself which would function in precisely the same way as a younger Body would?

Also, how did Sora's "body" age if it was just an image of himself as he was at the time his Heart was released?

I'm not denying that what you say is true, by the way, those are just questions that the assertion raises for me.

I think it's a feat that you can't do alone, you need a powerful bond with someone else.

What makes even less sense to me than Roxas having Sora's Body is Roxas having Sora's Soul. Nomura has stated that the Soul is essentially one's life source. Without it, Sora would have been more or less like the Lingering Sentiment; an even more empty existence than a Nobody, with no will or developed consciousness. Although I realize it's the "official" explanation, the idea that Roxas had Sora's Body and Soul just doesn't match up with what we know about the composition of existence in Kingdom Hearts. :/

The soul definitely complicates things, but I always thought that Sora does get a new body. The body is not a very phenomenal thing in KH, so I don't think it's that far of a stretch to say that Kairi's light formed him a new body (from her memories/bond/whatever). After all, most normal bodies in the KH universe seem to break down into components of light after the heart leaves, so it's reasonable to think a body could be constructed from light.

This would explain, as you mention, why Sora can age. It's not just, like, some projection that he has during CoM/Days, it's an actual, physical body. And it should be noted that Sora never needed Roxas back because he had his original vessel, but because of the memory ordeal, so he could have, in theory, gone on without Roxas just fine.

Yeah, the soul's a bit of a head scratcher, but I wouldn't dwell on it much. Could it be said that Kairi also crafted a new "soul" for Sora out of her light? I don't know. We're not apt to say so, I think, because our western conception of the soul is basically the equivalent of the heart in KH, so I think the mentality is to assume it is more special than it may actually be. All we know about the soul in KH is that it's more or less the "battery" which makes the vessel move, it doesn't necessarily have to be unique to each individual.

Or if that's too hard to swallow, we could always come up with some other explanation. Like, Sora has a new body, but no soul, and he uses his old soul through Roxas remotely in a similar way to how Roxas can use Sora's heart remotely. -shrug- Either way, doesn't really matter.

I'm pretty sure it said in this character thing for Kairi that her light gave Sora a body based on her memories or something. I can't really remember though

Yeah, I can't find it though!

See, I always assumed Roxas was just a weird case of existence, the same as Namine. Supposedly, he has Ven's Heart and that's why he looks like Ven, but that would mean the natural process of being born as a Nobody wouldn't apply to him. Besides, how could Sora have unlocked his Heart and Kairi's but somehow failed to unlock Ven's (the implication being that if Roxas was born into Sora's Body, Ven's Heart somehow remained in Sora's Body, causing Roxas to look like Ven WUT)? There aren't any clear answers regarding this.

He may very well have "unlocked" Ven's heart.
Remember, Maleficent's heart was unlocked, but it wasn't released, so Ven's heart would not necessarily have to be released. It doesn't have to have the same effect. The only effect it might have had was awaking it.
 

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I think it's a feat that you can't do alone, you need a powerful bond with someone else.
Perhaps.

The soul definitely complicates things, but I always thought that Sora does get a new body. The body is not a very phenomenal thing in KH, so I don't think it's that far of a stretch to say that Kairi's light formed him a new body (from her memories/bond/whatever). After all, most normal bodies in the KH universe seem to break down into components of light after the heart leaves, so it's reasonable to think a body could be constructed from light.
I would certainly accept this explanation, just as I would accept the concept that Roxas got a new Body when he was created, somehow. What I don't understand is the idea that Sora simply wandered around as a Heart with a fake body that didn't actually exist but somehow functioned exactly like a real Body would. Actually, the thought that Princesses of Heart may have that sort of ability provides hope for characters like Xion and Roxas. Maybe Kairi is the key to solving some of their torment by giving them bodies of their own.

This would explain, as you mention, why Sora can age. It's not just, like, some projection that he has during CoM/Days, it's an actual, physical body. And it should be noted that Sora never needed Roxas back because he had his original vessel, but because of the memory ordeal, so he could have, in theory, gone on without Roxas just fine.
This makes a great deal more sense.

Yeah, the soul's a bit of a head scratcher, but I wouldn't dwell on it much. Could it be said that Kairi also crafted a new "soul" for Sora out of her light? I don't know. We're not apt to say so, I think, because our western conception of the soul is basically the equivalent of the heart in KH, so I think the mentality is to assume it is more special than it may actually be. All we know about the soul in KH is that it's more or less the "battery" which makes the vessel move, it doesn't necessarily have to be unique to each individual.
I would find it harder to believe at this point that the Soul can be created quite so easily, but I certainly wouldn't think it impossible if that's the direction the game takes. I also think the Soul is unique to each person because it's their intrinsic life energy; you're right, however, in that I may be extrapolating significance which actually stems from the Heart in that regard. As of yet, the Soul is the least discussed aspect of existence within the mythology of the KH series, so it's hard to relate its overall essential nature to the wholeness of a person. I feel as though Terra's Soul will be an important factor in future installments, however, so I'm treating it as an equivalent piece to the Body and Heart.

Or if that's too hard to swallow, we could always come up with some other explanation. Like, Sora has a new body, but no soul, and he uses his old soul through Roxas remotely in a similar way to how Roxas can use Sora's heart remotely. -shrug- Either way, doesn't really matter.
On the other hand, perhaps Roxas is sharing Sora's Soul remotely; or, perhaps Roxas is sharing Ven's Soul remotely or directly. He has Ven's Body (at least in appearance) and Ven isn't exactly functioning, so his Soul may be following his Heart, which would lead it to Roxas. In the end, as long as it makes sense within the context of the story, I'm happy with any interpretation.

He may very well have "unlocked" Ven's heart.
Remember, Maleficent's heart was unlocked, but it wasn't released, so Ven's heart would not necessarily have to be released. It doesn't have to have the same effect. The only effect it might have had was awaking it.
Good point. However, it doesn't answer why Ven's Heart wouldn't have been released along with Sora's, since they're connected in the exact same way Sora's and Kairi's were. It seems like a bit of a logical fallacy.
 

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Good point. However, it doesn't answer why Ven's Heart wouldn't have been released along with Sora's, since they're connected in the exact same way Sora's and Kairi's were. It seems like a bit of a logical fallacy.

You seem to forget the most glaring difference between Ven's and Kairi's heart:

Kairi's heart was healthy and perfectly functionable while Ven's heart isn't.

Ven's heart is badly mauled and injured, therefore it can't be released.

Furthermore, Ven's heart and Sora's aren't connected the same way as as Sora's and Kairi's, the connection between Ven and Sora is way deeper than with Kairi.

---


On the note of Sora's temporary "vessel" created by Kairi's princess powers I don't really see where the problem is.
Roxas had Sora's body and soul with Ven's heart stuck inside it because the injured heart couldn't remain inside Sora's when it was overtaken by darkness.

Sora was very similar to Ansem SoD, who also managed to retain his human feelings and his own consciousness/mind.
In the first Ansem Reports it it even written by Xehanort that he "transcended" into an existence of only the heart.
The difference was that he didn't have his heart purified of the darkness like Kairi did with Sora => ergo the brown cloak guy we see in KH1 first.

Heartless and Unversed also "exist" without souls and yet they still are able to be hit and also to dish out stuff.
Furthermore, about the soul stuff, Sora and Roxas were always closely connected with each other through a psychic link. Roxas even stored his own memories in Sora's heart through that connection (example: Twilight Town in Chain of Memories).
So, the physical location of the soul (meaning in Sora's body which is inhabited by Roxas) is irrelevant since Sora can still either function just the same as a heartless or Unversed (only with his own mind and sense of self) OR he can access his soul through the link with Roxas without Roxas noticing...just like Roxas most likely used Ven's crippled heart to feel real emotions.
 

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You seem to forget the most glaring difference between Ven's and Kairi's heart:

Kairi's heart was healthy and perfectly functionable while Ven's heart isn't.
I didn't forget this, but I didn't think it held any verifiable relevance.

Ven's heart is badly mauled and injured, therefore it can't be released.
How does one follow from the other? The fact that Ven's heart was injured would make it less likely to cope on its own, meaning it would naturally followed Sora's heart (which is essentially its life support), meaning it would have been released.

Furthermore, Ven's heart and Sora's aren't connected the same way as as Sora's and Kairi's, the connection between Ven and Sora is way deeper than with Kairi.
More evidence that it would have been released along with Sora's. However, there isn't any definitive evidence to indicate that Ven's connection with Sora is deeper than Kairi's. Ven's Heart is simply weaker and, presumably, more reliant upon Sora's, but his Heart and Kairi's would have been sharing the same space. As characters, Kairi has a much stronger relationship with Sora than Ven does, so I can't imagine her Heart would have any less affinity towards Sora's; indeed, that's the very reason her Heart fled to his.

On the note of Sora's temporary "vessel" created by Kairi's princess powers I don't really see where the problem is.
I can't speak for anyone else, but my confusion was primarily with the concept of a non-corporeal physical temporary vessel that came out of nowhere. This has since been remedied through various explanations which make a good deal of sense, even if they're all essentially speculative.

Roxas had Sora's body and soul with Ven's heart stuck inside it because the injured heart couldn't remain inside Sora's when it was overtaken by darkness.
Accepting the premise that Roxas has Ven's Heart: if it's so weak, how did it survive while Sora's Heart was plunged into darkness? Ven's Heart is directly connected with Sora's and depends upon it for its continued existence. Once Sora's light blinked out, from what I can understand, Ven's Heart would have collapsed.

Sora was very similar to Ansem SoD, who also managed to retain his human feelings and his own consciousness/mind.
In the first Ansem Reports it it even written by Xehanort that he "transcended" into an existence of only the heart.
Except, Sora wasn't anything like Ansem SoD. Ansem SoD sustained his human form as a Heartless by way of his immense darkness. Sora didn't have enough darkness to create anything more than a mere Shadow. I can probably accept that Kairi's immense "light" could have born a new Body for him, but I don't think it was Sora's powers that gave him form. And, FYI, an existence of only the heart = a Heartless.

The difference was that he didn't have his heart purified of the darkness like Kairi did with Sora => ergo the brown cloak guy we see in KH1 first.
I already addressed this, but it was because he was so consumed by darkness (and had such a mastery of it) that he was able to maintain a human form. Stronger light gives way to a weaker Heartless. Therefore, there can't really be any relation between Ansem SoD's existence and Sora's. They're fundamentally at opposition.

Heartless and Unversed also "exist" without souls and yet they still are able to be hit and also to dish out stuff.
Heartless are just darkness that has formed from a Heart. Darkness itself has physical elements to it, but Heartless do not have a true Body (or Soul; they function purely on the nature of darkness, which is to spread and consume). Ansem SoD is the exception, but it's possible Master Xehanort's control of darkness was lent to him, essentially allowing him to manipulate his own darkness to the extent that he was essentially conscious. Unversed were physical manifestations of Vanitas's negativity. I don't really understand what element they stem from, but I think it's suggested that they're crafted from darkness given the imagery associated with them as well as the fact that Vanitas's Heart is pure darkness.

Furthermore, about the soul stuff, Sora and Roxas were always closely connected with each other through a psychic link. Roxas even stored his own memories in Sora's heart through that connection (example: Twilight Town in Chain of Memories).
So, the physical location of the soul (meaning in Sora's body which is inhabited by Roxas) is irrelevant since Sora can still either function just the same as a heartless or Unversed (only with his own mind and sense of self) OR he can access his soul through the link with Roxas without Roxas noticing...just like Roxas most likely used Ven's crippled heart to feel real emotions.
I'll agree on this point. Roxas is, after all, Sora, so I can see them sharing a Soul remotely between the two of them regardless of its physical and temporal location, as has already been discussed.
 
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