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Square Enix shifting towards Nintendo, and away from Sony?



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Mr. Wilhelm

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Ok, actually PS3 graphics can be whatever they want. They can keep the same graphic level, just with more sharpness, but that might dissapoint some people (especially Sony who wont be able to brag about it reaching the capabilities of the PS3).

Then better put it on PS2. They won't, so on Wii. Develloping a game with PS2 level on PS3 level is something Square Enix will do with pain. So, Wii is better choice for graphism.

KH with FFXII graphism is strange to imagine for me. Since I am convinced SE, especially when it is a game like KH, would want use full capacity of the support. Only Data's world and PoC world would use PS3 capacity. Anyway, futur will tell what they choose...
 

devilsTrinity

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I hope you guys aren't thinking that they're not gonna put KH3 on a sony console. Because, I can't remember a single game that has ever been with a console and just dropped it you know how pissed the fans would be. The most they will do is release it on multi and then if they re-invent the series maybe it would be just for nintendo but until then don't hold your breath.
 

Mr. Wilhelm

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I hope you guys aren't thinking that they're not gonna put KH3 on a sony console. Because, I can't remember a single game that has ever been with a console and just dropped it you know how pissed the fans would be. The most they will do is release it on multi and then if they re-invent the series maybe it would be just for nintendo but until then don't hold your breath.

There is game who changed of console. After FF6 on Super Nintendo, FF7 came on Playstation One. Most game was on Nintendo before going to Playstation, Breath Of Fire is another sample.
Beside, Sony makes more and more game with FF and KH franchise on Nintendo system, showing Nintendo have their interest.

Fan who cannot pay 500$ a PS3 won't be disapointed if KH3 is on Wii. Beside from graphism point of view, like I said before, Wii is just perfect for a KH game. No need more than what it can do.
 

TheMuffinMan

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Soriku <.< even though I like the idea of KH on the Wii, I don't agree with your reasoning. If KH was going to be on the Wii I would want it to be a mutual decision from Disney and S-E that benefits them both, not some asshole move by Disney to usurp what S-E wants to do.

I hope you guys aren't thinking that they're not gonna put KH3 on a sony console. Because, I can't remember a single game that has ever been with a console and just dropped it you know how pissed the fans would be. The most they will do is release it on multi and then if they re-invent the series maybe it would be just for nintendo but until then don't hold your breath.

lol then you haven't been playing video games very long

-Final Fantasy
-Dragon Quest
-Star Ocean
-Final Fantasy Tactics
-Xenosaga

And those are just Square Enix franchises. What's that you say? Yes, that's correct, Square Enix has had 5 of their franchises completely switch platforms! Dragon Quest actually switched platforms twice.

-Suikoden
-Tactics Ogre
-Grand Theft Auto
-Armored Core
-Monster Hunter
-Heavenly Sword
-Halo
-Marathon
-Lost Planet

Want me to continue?
 

vendachaser

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Yeah, that's absolutely correct. The art style is the main point in the KH series' graphic appeal.
To me, it would be great for KH3 to come on the Wii. Nintendo seems to be getting better than Sony in the console industry, and if you ask me, it's because NDS and Wii are so much different consoles. Wii would offer a great platform for KH3.
right there, thank you! because the wii is a very interactive console and i think it would be great for KH3.
 
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Yannis

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The smartest thing they can do is release it multiplatform. SE does not have to make games strictly for Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft. Yes the graphics capability of the Wii is not as good as the PS3 or X-Box 360 (Just look at Heavenly sword and Gears of War) but if you have seen Legend of Zelda for the Wii you have some idea of who fun it could be. Plus Kingdom Hearts is half Disney and what is the Wii targeted for? Kids and what do kids like? Disney. Some people think the Wii is strictly for kids because of the Mii and all the kiddy games for it but its not just look at Resident evil Umbrella chronicles. It’s all about what gets SE more money and a multiplatform game makes more money then a Strictly X-box, PS3, or Wii game. I personally hope it does not come out for the Wii and in my mind it probably won’t but if it does I don't care much.

Officially accepted by me.

~Yannis
 
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Considering this has, as many topics do, shifted into a console debate, I might as well throw in my opinion.

To be blunt, I think KH3 will be on the PS3. That's not to say that the Wii won't get a KH game, but I highly doubt it will get KH3. I think we're all in agreement that, as much as it would be nice, multi-platform isn't likely. And, even though I'd love it, a KH game on the 360 is practically out of the question.

Part of my reasoning is the difference in gameplay potentials between the two consoles. Take the DS and PSP on a smaller scale, for instance. BBS, arguably the most important of the upcoming games, is going to the PSP, and part of that is indeed because of continuity in gameplay. The PSP will be the closest to having that feel that the KH games had on PS2. The DS will not be used for its ingenuity, but rather contains similar gameplay for 358/2 days. Applying this to KH3, the most logical choice would be the PS3. Unfortunately, there almost definitely won't be a game for each console, so it has to go to one. If it were to go to the Wii, though, the emphasis would need to be on using the wii-mote. This, however, detracts from the unique gameplay of KH, so I doubt they would do that. Many argue that the KH gameplay needs an overhaul, but it hasn't so far, and the variations between CoM and KH2 (with such additions as a card battle system or drive forms) keep the gameplay fresh while retaining some of its original essence, which would not happen with a wii-mote. It would be a totally different experience from the one I've come to love. I'd like a KH game on the Wii, just not KH3.

I won't bring up the "Well, he's making the FF13 games for the PS3, why not KH3" argument, since this is irrelevant because of SE platform variation, but I wil make a point on graphics:

To tell the story about the Keyblade War we need the capacity of hi-spec hardware and we need to accumulate all of our knowledge on this hardware.

Nomura has a tendency to be concerned with emphasis on graphics. I could pull up various other quotes of him on this. While one might think this to be vain, it's still going to play a major role in the decision.
 
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Everyone needs to get over this. If it comes to Wii, there's nothing we can do about it. If it comes to PS3, also nothing we can do about it. If it comes to both then everyone will be happy by the sounds of it.
 

Charlie K

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^ You're forgetting about the XBox 360.And possibly, but hopefully HOPEFULLY not the PC...HOPEFULLY NOT.
 
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It's not a matter of getting over it, it's a matter of opinion. Only when there's needless bickering about it should the subject be dropped. You shouldn't go putting in preconceived prejudices in with a choice.
 

Bh325

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I just think, like said, that graphics aren't the main thing in KH. To me, it has always been combining Disney and SE to create a great story and a great action-RPG-series. Wii would have the best possibilities to take KH further in gameplay. I think it would offer great ways of motion-control, if SE just has enough determination to develop motion-controlling. But the best way would probably be multi-platforming SE would just have to make KH3 unique for every console.
 

Ikkin

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That si true about the graphism. Trying to imagine KH with PS3 graphism, I guess it would be too much weird. The level of graphism in KH2 is about the perfect and maximum level KH needs. So, Wii would be the best solution, they could improve graphism a little but not too much, for sample, Disney character doesn't need to look better than what they do in KH2... They already look better in KH than in their original movie sometime...

...so you're saying that worse graphics are better than better graphics? o.o

There's some things that will always look better. More anti-aliasing will always be better than less anti-aliasing. Higher resolution textures are always better than lower resolution textures. Even cartoons look better at a higher screen resolution (why do you think Disney was one of the biggest supporters of Blu-ray?).

Sure, it's true that if done wrong, Mickey, Donald, and Goofy could look pretty creepy... but, if they're going to show up a lot in game, they're not going to be done wrong.

And, really... I never want to see a console KH game where the characters mouths are done by swapping textures again, which is enough by itself for me to say that KHIII's graphics need to look better than II's.


Ratchet and Clank, is a game for the PS3, do you think those were realistic graphics? You don't need super awesome graphics to go on the PS3 as proven by Ratchet and Clank, you can easily do Beggining Kingdom Hearts graphics on the PS3, and plus the fact that Twilight Princess had Gamecube graphics.

Wait... are you saying that Ratchet and Clank's graphics aren't "super awesome?" xD Don't confuse "better graphics" with "more realistic." ;)

What Ratchet really shows is that cartoony graphics can look really, really good on the PS3 and aren't bound to be creepy due to "too much power." ;)


There is game who changed of console. After FF6 on Super Nintendo, FF7 came on Playstation One. Most game was on Nintendo before going to Playstation, Breath Of Fire is another sample.
Beside, Sony makes more and more game with FF and KH franchise on Nintendo system, showing Nintendo have their interest.

Fan who cannot pay 500$ a PS3 won't be disapointed if KH3 is on Wii. Beside from graphism point of view, like I said before, Wii is just perfect for a KH game. No need more than what it can do.

FFVI to FFVII was a decision made for two reasons - first, Nintendo had seriously upset Square (hence why Nintendo didn't get any games from them until the Gamecube, and why Square supported Wonderswan over Gameboy), and second, there were major technical issues that prevented them from being able to make the game they wanted on N64.

They didn't switch the franchise because Playstation was doing better, they switched the franchise because it was much better for them to be able to make three and four CD games (totaling around 2 GB) than one cartridge games (which would be 128 MB max, not allow for multiple cartridges, and cost a lot more).

This, of course, is a complete opposite situation to PS3 and Wii, with the sole exception of PS3 having the more expensive media (though that'll probably not be an issue by the time KHIII comes out anyway, and the price difference isn't nearly as great even now)

As for $500... no one would have to pay that, anyway. The 40GB costs $400 now. Besides, KHIII isn't even going to be started until after FF Versus XIII is complete, because the KH team is working on Versus - and Versus isn't coming out until 2009. Even if KHIII comes out in '09 as well, that's still almost two years for the price to decrease more. PS3'll probably be under $300 by then.


lol then you haven't been playing video games very long

-Final Fantasy
-Dragon Quest
-Star Ocean
-Final Fantasy Tactics
-Xenosaga

And those are just Square Enix franchises. What's that you say? Yes, that's correct, Square Enix has had 5 of their franchises completely switch platforms! Dragon Quest actually switched platforms twice.

-Suikoden
-Tactics Ogre
-Grand Theft Auto
-Armored Core
-Monster Hunter
-Heavenly Sword
-Halo
-Marathon
-Lost Planet

Want me to continue?

The thing is... most of those franchises aren't continuous like KH is. You don't need to know FFVI to understand FFVII. And the FFTactics that's on Nintendo's systems isn't the same FFTactics as the one on the Sony systems.

Plus, using multi-platforms as examples of "switching platforms" is kinda silly. It's still on the platform that it started out on, just on another platform, too. And Squenix doesn't like multi-platforms.

And what's up with Heavenly Sword being on that list? o_0
 

Mr. Wilhelm

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...so you're saying that worse graphics are better than better graphics? o.o

There's some things that will always look better. More anti-aliasing will always be better than less anti-aliasing. Higher resolution textures are always better than lower resolution textures. Even cartoons look better at a higher screen resolution (why do you think Disney was one of the biggest supporters of Blu-ray?).

Sure, it's true that if done wrong, Mickey, Donald, and Goofy could look pretty creepy... but, if they're going to show up a lot in game, they're not going to be done wrong.

And, really... I never want to see a console KH game where the characters mouths are done by swapping textures again, which is enough by itself for me to say that KHIII's graphics need to look better than II's.

I think personnaly that KH2 graphics are near of the maximum we need. Just a sample, take the world of Simba. The character inKH2 look better than what they looked in original movie. Sure little things can be better, but not a lot. This statement applies for nearly all Disney World, and original character.

So, Wii would be perfect for this point, because we'd really have the maximm needed for Kh, just my though.
 

I<3Roxas

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IMO, I HIGHLY doubt that any KH games will be made specifically for Wii, or be released alongside a Wii version. Few reasons why - nomura(sp?) has already stated for the new DS game that he's using the DS more for its wireless play and NOT its "innovation" (ie, touch screen, 2 screens, ect) He has stated that the core gameplay, ie battles, will not deviate strongly from the previous games. I believe that you can extend this to future games as well. Making KH like twilight princess would be stupid as it goes against what he's already said and then it'd be like a clone of twilight princess, just different situations. Also, I agree that graphics are a big deal with nomura - notice how awesome the FMVs are? Why wouldnt' you want that quality graphics 100% of the time? Did you ever say that the opening movies or secret endings (or normal ones for that matter) looked weird? no, because they didnt. As someone else said, everything looks better with higher resolutions. Something else on graphics - notice the screens of the DS and PSP games? Look at how much better teh PSP ones are than the DS ones - roxas' hair is like a friggin' starburst of pixels on the DS, while Ven's is quite defined on the PSP.
 

TheMuffinMan

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And, really... I never want to see a console KH game where the characters mouths are done by swapping textures again, which is enough by itself for me to say that KHIII's graphics need to look better than II's.

The Wii is 2x as powerful as the Gamecube, and the Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2, hence the point: the Wii gives enough power to improve on the limitations on KH from being on PS2 hardware without going overboard with the HD

FFVI to FFVII was a decision made for two reasons - first, Nintendo had seriously upset Square (hence why Nintendo didn't get any games from them until the Gamecube, and why Square supported Wonderswan over Gameboy), and second, there were major technical issues that prevented them from being able to make the game they wanted on N64.

Square Enix put multiple titles on the Gameboy, what are you talking about?

They didn't switch the franchise because Playstation was doing better, they switched the franchise because it was much better for them to be able to make three and four CD games (totaling around 2 GB) than one cartridge games (which would be 128 MB max, not allow for multiple cartridges, and cost a lot more).

This reflects Kingdom Hearts how?

As for $500... no one would have to pay that, anyway. The 40GB costs $400 now. Besides, KHIII isn't even going to be started until after FF Versus XIII is complete, because the KH team is working on Versus - and Versus isn't coming out until 2009. Even if KHIII comes out in '09 as well, that's still almost two years for the price to decrease more. PS3'll probably be under $300 by then.

The $400 model removes PS2 backwards compatibility, mutliple USB ports, memory slots, etc. in order to allow it's pricepoint. Sony had to remove significant features in order to make the PS3 cheap enough to produce to sell at that pricepoint

The PS2 just dropped to $100 last year from it's $300 launch price, 6 years. And as the PS3 gets cheaper, doesn't the Wii in comparison? The PS3 drops below $300, suddenly the Wii is $150.

The thing is... most of those franchises aren't continuous like KH is. You don't need to know FFVI to understand FFVII. And the FFTactics that's on Nintendo's systems isn't the same FFTactics as the one on the Sony systems.

Is it a matter of continuity? I don't think that was part of the discussion, it was a matter of "I don't know of a single major franchise that has ever switched consoles"

Plus, using multi-platforms as examples of "switching platforms" is kinda silly. It's still on the platform that it started out on, just on another platform, too. And Squenix doesn't like multi-platforms.

How so? It was an exclusive title to one platform, then it's not.

Also, Last Remnant.

And what's up with Heavenly Sword being on that list? o_0

Heavenly Sword was an Xbox game
 

Ikkin

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I think personnaly that KH2 graphics are near of the maximum we need. Just a sample, take the world of Simba. The character inKH2 look better than what they looked in original movie. Sure little things can be better, but not a lot. This statement applies for nearly all Disney World, and original character.

So, Wii would be perfect for this point, because we'd really have the maximm needed for Kh, just my though.

Actually, the Pride Lands level is one of the ones that I think shows the need for improvement in graphics the most. >>;

Just look at little-Simba's face in the first memory sequence. He constantly looks too happy, even when he really, really shouldn't (except when they're focusing on his reaction). This is almost certainly because the lower-detail model doesn't have enough controls to be able to change his face properly, and is done because of the weakness of the system that it's on.

And it most certainly doesn't look better than the original movie. ._. There's nothing like a hand-drawn cartoon for showing emotion, particularly in animal characters.


Disney is also supporting Nintendo, you know Buena Vista, the company that produced and localized Kingdom Hearts 2 in North America? That is now an exclusive DS and Wii development studio.

...where is this "Disney Interactive is Nintendo exclusive!" thing coming from? This guy doesn't sound like he's working for a DS and Wii-only studio.

Then, there's Turok, which is PS3/360-only, which alone is enough to refute that idea. >>;

In any case, a studio which has stuff like this as PR doesn't sound like the kind of studio which would tell Nomura, "No, you can't have your pretty PS3 graphics and action movie-looking gameplay," does it?

"The Touchstone aspect for us is a terrifically small piece of our world, but an important one, because it's putting us at the cutting edge of game development, which is Pixar tools and technology-strong. We are taking a cinematic approach. It's not just about "bang bang bang." It's about really trying to tell a story, and creating immersive environments."

And

"Our company's built in creativity in everything we do. Whenever we've strayed away from focusing on creativity, even to make money, it's never been a good end story for us. It's very clear in games, like everything else, creativity will drive what we do."

If the guy's being honest (and not just trying to sound good for PR), it sounds a lot more like they'd understand someone like Nomura's desire to make the game on the most advanced system. *shrugs*


...actually, I figured it out. XD It's not Disney Interactive which is going exclusive; they just have an internal studio which focuses on Wii and DS:

So whether it be Propaganda, Avalanche, Fall Line, which is our Wii and DS-focused studio, or whether it be Black Rock, which is our racing game studio, or...

Which means nothing for Kingdom Hearts, because it's not being made by the Wii/DS studio. ;)

It's an interesting interview, though. ^^ Has some KH-related stuff, too.



The Wii is 2x as powerful as the Gamecube, and the Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2, hence the point: the Wii gives enough power to improve on the limitations on KH from being on PS2 hardware without going overboard with the HD

Actually, it's more like 1.5x as powerful. >.>; And HD always looks better than non-HD, so there's no reason to complain about it. >>;


Square Enix put multiple titles on the Gameboy, what are you talking about?

Well, I was referring to years and years ago, after the big breakup in the Playstation era but before Square and Nintendo kissed and made up. ^^;


This reflects Kingdom Hearts how?

It doesn't, and that's the point. xD I wasn't the one who wanted to use the FF series' movement from Nintendo to Sony as an example for KH.


The $400 model removes PS2 backwards compatibility, mutliple USB ports, memory slots, etc. in order to allow it's pricepoint. Sony had to remove significant features in order to make the PS3 cheap enough to produce to sell at that pricepoint

The PS2 just dropped to $100 last year from it's $300 launch price, 6 years. And as the PS3 gets cheaper, doesn't the Wii in comparison? The PS3 drops below $300, suddenly the Wii is $150.

...so? It would still play a PS3 KH game perfectly fine. :p Plus, they still have lots of price reductions that they still can do - Blu-ray drives will be less expensive as they're mass-produced, they can shrink chips so they cost less, etc. (And they're hiring people for backwards compatibility for PS3, which might mean they'll put it in software - which would almost certainly be done by the time KHIII comes out).

And Nintendo's not cost restricted. They're making a huge amount of money per unit as it is, so they have little reason to decrease the price.


Is it a matter of continuity? I don't think that was part of the discussion, it was a matter of "I don't know of a single major franchise that has ever switched consoles"

Well, that's an important part of the discussion where KH is concerned. *shrugs*


How so? It was an exclusive title to one platform, then it's not.

Also, Last Remnant.

Which is multi-platform because Squenix wanted to see if they could sell anything on Xbox 360, and also uses a licensed engine to save work. It's not really that similar to KH, which, like FF, is a series that Squenix likes to push the limits of a system with.


Heavenly Sword was an Xbox game

Huh, that's interesting. Didn't know that. Though, it's not really an example of a franchise that switched, considering how it switched before the first game actually came out.
 
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I'd have have to agree with you graphic-wise in two respects, Ikkin. I'm tired of the low-resolution face textures they use for characters on occasion (it REALLY takes away from the experience). For most of them, it's usually painfully obvious when the character has a... "flat face". In addition to that, they need a higher polygon count. I'd really like to see, for instance, spheres actually looking like spheres rather than having circular edges and a smoother outline of the characters in motion (rather than the faintly visible jagged edges).
 

TheMuffinMan

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...where is this "Disney Interactive is Nintendo exclusive!" thing coming from? This guy doesn't sound like he's working for a DS and Wii-only studio

Then, there's Turok, which is PS3/360-only, which alone is enough to refute that idea. >>;

I should have reworded the sentence as "DI now has a completely exclusive DS/Wii development studio"

The makers of Turok are a different development studio that was bought by Disney as a developer, they were not apart of Buena Vista previously. A team at Buena Vista reformed as the "Fall Line" studio

In any case, a studio which has stuff like this as PR doesn't sound like the kind of studio which would tell Nomura, "No, you can't have your pretty PS3 graphics and action movie-looking gameplay," does it?

And where did I say they did? If you read my post, the point I was making is that Disney supporting Sony because of Blu-Ray isn't an indication of anything, because Disney is supporting Microsoft through Live Marketplace Movie Distribution, and they're supporting Nintendo by forming an exclusive DS/Wii development studio

If the guy's being honest (and not just trying to sound good for PR), it sounds a lot more like they'd understand someone like Nomura's desire to make the game on the most advanced system. *shrugs*

Or you could come to a completely different conclusion by reading his other quote:

"When we saw what we could do with the controller, think of it as a magic wand moving through a world. It creates magic and excitement and joy for kids."

...actually, I figured it out. XD It's not Disney Interactive which is going exclusive; they just have an internal studio which focuses on Wii and DS:

The old subsidiaries in Beuna Vista formed a new studio in Utah, which is the Fall Line studio

Which means nothing for Kingdom Hearts, because it's not being made by the Wii/DS studio. ;)

See the point I made above.
 
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Ikkin

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I should have reworded the sentence as "DI now has a completely exclusive DS/Wii development studio"

The makers of Turok are a different development studio that was bought by Disney as a developer, they were not apart of Buena Vista previously. A team at Buena Vista reformed as the "Fall Line" studio

Well, there's a significant difference in the implication there. ^^;

I was saying they were part of Disney Interactive, not that they were the same studio. *shrugs* And the fact that the old Buena Vista is the one that's being used for that suggests more that they're trying to expand further and would thus be less likely to have a problem with a PS3 KH.


And where did I say they did? If you read my post, the point I was making is that Disney supporting Sony because of Blu-Ray isn't an indication of anything, because Disney is supporting Microsoft through Live Marketplace Movie Distribution, and they're supporting Nintendo by forming an exclusive DS/Wii development studio

Oh, okay. I thought the implication was, "Buena Vista is now DS/Wii only, so they will force S-E to make KHIII on Wii." ^^;

And you're right about Blu-ray not really meaning that much, at least with the situation the way it is. If KHIII were coming out this year, Disney might have an advantage in having it for PS3, because it would move more Blu-ray players to people who like Disney movies. But, by the time it comes out, Blu-ray probably won't need the help anymore.


Or you could come to a completely different conclusion by reading his other quote:

"When we saw what we could do with the controller, think of it as a magic wand moving through a world. It creates magic and excitement and joy for kids."

You forget the next line: "Would a core gamer want to play it? No."

And KH is, in their own words, meant for both the core gamer (the 20-year old single guy) along with everyone else, so that's clearly not the model they're following there. :p

Plus, my point was that they sounded like they'd be able to understand the cinematic, technological drive of someone like Squenix, not that that was the only thing they were going for. So, no, I wouldn't come to an opposite conclusion from that sentence.
 
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