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When Xemnas fused with the half destroyed Kingdom Hearts towards the end, he shouldn't be a Nobody anymore, correct?
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When Xemnas fused with the half destroyed Kingdom Hearts towards the end, he shouldn't be a Nobody anymore, correct?
He never accomplished his task of fusing with Kingdom Hearts.
Also there's a lot of debate as to whether or not he was ever a nobody to begin with. Even Nomura has hinted that he never was.
no, he didnt. he hinted he could use a keyblade.
Uhm, exactly. That would mean he has a heart, no?
Having a heart =/= Being a Nobody.
Thanks for proving my point.
I think that's highly debatable, actually.
Prior to 2007, if you had asked if a heart was needed to wield a keyblade, the obvious answer would have been no, looking at Roxas. The easiest explanation is that one could say, as Sora's Nobody, he could wield indirectly through Sora's heart. But then Nomura made it clear that one of the conditions to wield a keyblade is to have a heart, which indicated that Roxas had a heart. Sure enough, this was confirmed through BbS.
So now we have no case of someone being able to wield a keyblade without a heart, and thus we cannot say whether that's possible.
At the very least, you can't say definitively that Roxas could wield without Ven's heart because to do so would be comparing the pre-retcon explanation for Roxas wielding with the post-retcon explanation. The canon has changed.
The indication that Roxas has a heart was, if I recall correctly, made with the fact that Roxas could feel and express real emotions instead of memorybased "fake" ones.
There stands still the fact that Roxas was using Sora's keyblade at all times, Ven's keyblade was sealed away until Xion disappeared and Roxas in his distress managed to directly access Ven's heart to unlock it.
Sora and Roxas had, due to them co-existing, always a psychic link which allowed Roxas to use Sora's keyblade, as well as it allowed him (without noticing) to store his own memories partly in Sora's heart.
That's what allowed Vexen to craft the Twilight Town memory card in Chain of Memories.
We may not be able to say it 100% definitely, granted, but the notion that Roxas could wield due to his link with Sora and his co-existence with him has not been rendered untrue at all with Ven's heart in the mix.
Can't exactly remember from where those hints came, sorry.I know that Roxas was hinted to have a heart through his emotions, I am talking specifically about the hints in relation to his ability to wield.
If that was enough or not has yet to be proved, one can't say that one or the other variation is correct yet.That Roxas was using Sora's keyblade makes my point no less valid. There was a "psychic" link between Sora and Roxas, no doubt. The question is whether or not this was enough of a justification for Roxas to wield (Ven or Sora's keyblade). Prior to 2007, it was. But now it no longer is.
Yeah, indeed.I think what you're trying to say is that Roxas does not wield Sora's keyblade through Ven's heart but explicitly through his connection to Sora. In which case, I disagree, I think it's both.
As a broader example, if Person A is wielding Person B's keyblade, it's Person A's own heart in the end that allows them to wield, regardless of whether or not the keyblade originates from them. If Person A does not have a heart (or a worthy heart for that matter), they're not going to be able to use Person B's keyblade.
Wouldn't that go into the same category as "Ven giving Sora the wielding ability in general" which has been repeatedly refused?Put another way, I think Ven's heart gives Roxas the ability to wield keyblades in general, and his link to Sora allows him to wield Sora's keyblade. However, without that first condition, the link would not be enough for him to wield. It is the combined power of Ven's heart and the connection to Sora that lets Roxas use Sora's keyblade.
Can't exactly remember from where those hints came, sorry.
The only things I remember concerning this are when Nomura was asked what the conditions to wield/get a keyblade in general are.
Here the only obvious one is that the person needs an exceptional strong heart, which applies neither to Xemnas nor to Roxas (or Xion as well for that matter) because they are not full "persons".
If that was enough or not has yet to be proved, one can't say that one or the other variation is correct yet.
It has not been confirmed or even hinted that Ven's heart allows Roxas to wield Sora's keyblade, the only things we know about Ven's heart in the mix is the emotion-bit and the second keyblade bit.
But that's what makes much of the fun interpreting stuff. ^___^
I won't rule out any of those explanations.
Yeah, indeed.
Because what has Ven's heart to do with Sora's keyblade? Nothing at all so having it or not should in no way hamper the wielding ability if you have access to the actual heart the keyblade belongs to, and that access Roxas indirectly had since he could also store his memories in a part of Sora's heart due to their link.
Not to mention that Sora's heart is fully functionable, while Ven's is a crippled trainwreck.
Wouldn't that go into the same category as "Ven giving Sora the wielding ability in general" which has been repeatedly refused?
The question would be if Ven's heart has even any "power" to give in its grievous state...wouldn't it need to focuse all energy to itself in order to keep the "pain-bearing"-sleep up and maybe start to recuperate slowly (if hearts can heal on themselves, that is).
Geez, I just found the tidbit of Nomura's explanation regarding that in the Days-Ultimania.That's what I'm referring to.
And I'm not sure on what basis you're giving an exception to Roxas/Nobody. That they're not full persons is not a logical justification for why they don't need hearts to wield, there is no connection between them.
You said pretty explicitly that having a heart is not required when Nomura said otherwise, to which I replied that it was debatable.
At this point no one who has wielded a keyblade does not have a heart, so while there is potential for an exception, it does not exist and hence that rule still stands.
Spoiler Show
-- In the end Roxas is able use two keyblades. Is this because he now has Xion’s?
Nomura: Well, it isn’t that Roxas has physically inherited Xion’s keyblade, but more that Xion has awakened it within Roxas. In the KH series there are a lot of complex reasons why someone can use a keyblade, but basically you need a “heart” to be able to wield one. So strictly speaking, they are being influenced by Sora. At the present I can’t say more than that, since it would go into whether or not Roxas has a heart. And there is also a part that has to do with Xehanort’s memories. This time there were connections to the Kingdom Hearts I secret movie, and the time will come when this will have a clear connection as well. You’ll just have to ask me then.
Considering above interview snippet that is legit.Ven's heart has everything to do with wielding Sora's keyblade, or any keyblade for that matter. You need a heart to wield. That's the rule. The connection to Sora is what gives Roxas the ability to wield Sora's keyblade on demand. If he did not have a connection to Sora, he would not be able to wield his keyblade on demand, but could do so if, for example, Sora gave it to him. If he did not have Ven's heart on the other hand, he would not be able to wield any keyblade at all. That's what I'm getting at. His connection to Sora channels his wielding abilities (which originate from Ven's heart) to allow him to wield Sora's keyblade.
Hm? Not sure I follow. In regards to Ven giving Sora the ability to wield: http://forums.khinsider.com/future-kingdom-hearts/164532-key-sleep-wielder-kairi-2.html#post5666033
Also, you pulled that from nowhere, Ven's heart focusing its energy on itself? Yeah, please don't do that.
I still rather believe that Roxas only needed Sora to both emote and to wield--the pivotal point being that Sora was alive. This means that Roxas had a heart, it was Sora, it just existed outside of him. I know this has been retconned, I just don't like how it ruins so much symbolism, so I'd rather believe Ven's heart had only cosmetic effects until Xion carked it.
Even knowing it's undebatable, I wonder if that has anything to do with what makes Xemnas a different case to Roxas; his Other situation being different, I mean.
If someone needs a heart in able to weild a keyblade, wtf is up with xion?
she had one, tho fake. also her keyblade was fake as well if that helps any.If someone needs a heart in able to weild a keyblade, wtf is up with xion?