Xemnas IS Terra?

[Xking]

Also, is Eraqus' heart confirmed to be inside Terra? Or was Terra's heart just "touched" by Eraqus (as in giving him some sort of light to fend off MX)?

when Eraqus was Defeated by terra at some point in time Eraqus at that moment put his heart inside Terra cause him knowing Terra might get into darkness again he did that to help him among everything Eraqus knew that Might happen

 

[Cosmic+Amarna]

I like the idea of Xemnas being affiliated with Terra (talking to Aqua's armor, looking for Ven) and Ansem SoD with MX (Same outfit, going back to DESTINY ISLANDS), but I haven't seen any evidence suggesting Xemnas had any heart-like qualities. He was just pure mean, whereas Roxas had real emotions.

It's been somewhat suggested since Sora and Xehanort are often compared with each other as the only two beings to return from Heartless form, and the key ingredient seems to be having a few extra hearts lying around. I'd like more support though...

Also, is Eraqus' heart confirmed to be inside Terra? Or was Terra's heart just "touched" by Eraqus (as in giving him some sort of light to fend off MX)?

Yeah Xemnas was an a hole, and I don't think he had any personality resemblance to Terra. I mean do kind of like the notion of Terra being Xemnas, but I highly doubt it. I don't know whats up with Terra and Eraqus, their hearts simply touching like you suggest may be what it actually is rather than Eraqus residing in Terra's heart. Who knows either of the two work.

 

[sora364]

Terra and Xemnas are too separate sentient existences. Xemnas is nothing more than a remnant of Terra, holding both his original body and soul. He has also been bequeathed with some of Terra's sensibilities: (His memories, his thoughts, his inability to feel nothing but anger, etc) However, he should not be mistaken with Terra.

Terra heart (himself), for all intents and purposes, was merged with Master Xehanort's heart: this newly forged being would later be known as Apprentice Xehanort. The residual consciousness of Terra and Master Xehanort were sealed within this newly fused heart, thus this "new" Xehanort remembers nothing of "his" past. He is neither Terra nor Master Xehanort. Apprentice Xehanort would later become Ansem Seeker of Darkness/Xehanort's Heartless. We need to remember that AnsemSod is a fusion of Terra and Master Xehanort; two parts of the same coin. With this in mind, Terra would theoretically have more control over Ansem Seeker of Darkness rather than Xemnas; Terra's actual consciousness and persona is sealed within him.

Xemnas is an anomaly that should not exist in the first place. He is first Apprentice Xehanort's Nobody, but the vestige Apprentice Xehanort/AnsemSod left behind were originally Terra's. This is why Xemnas remembers his past as both Apprentice Xehanort and Terra.

Terra has as much control over Xemnas as Kairi does Namine.

 

[Nayru's Love]

Sadly this is the flaw in you theory. Terra's heart did not go to sleep like Ven's heart. Ven's heart didn't join Sora's Heartless, because Ven could not leave Sora's body.

Terra's heart kinda did. Otherwise, he would've still struggled as AX. Hell, he's even waiting for his birth by sleep.

Xemnas is the body of Terra while under Master Xehanort's control. I get the feeling we won't be able to figure out why Xemnas looks older, because that might be one of the retcons coming in DDD. It's possible Xemnas looks older, because he is a body who possess memories of two heart, and that caused him to have the appearance that looks like a midway point between those hearts.

Xemnas never aged. Nomura specifically used him in an example when explaining how Nobodies don't age.

It is possible that Terra's heart is actually drifting in the Realm of Sleep, and that only Master Xehanort's heart managed to reunite with his body.

Hearts would go to the RoD if they have nowhere to go.

Of course none of this is going to make sense until we learn what the new retcons are.

Not really retcons.

And with what you are saying about how Xemnas has aged....Namine aged too. She did not have her respective heart, being Kairi's.

Xemnas didn't age.

It could've been like Roxas' situation, in which he was using Sora's Keyblade throughout Days until Xion died, which allowed access to Ven's.
Meaning that since Riku wouldn't be using Terra's Keyblade, that Xemnas could have. He may have just not known it, or didn't want to.

If Xemnas had access to any keyblade, it would be MX's.

Pretty much, if you say that Xemnas has all the parts of Terra inside him. Including heart, body, soul...everything that makes the original Somebody, than he isn't a Nobody. Not even a Special Nobody, he is a Somebody, which he isn't.

Arguably, he'd still be a special Nobody because he was born like one.

Well i cant say much about the Terra is Xehanort thing but here is something i remember in KHIIFM u see a hooded Figure moving downstairs in going into a prison Cell and once he get to the end ull see Aqua's armor which was used to save Terranort when he was falling into the world of darkness, now once the figure sits down he says something that will get u to think is that part Terra? this is what he says "It''s been a long time my friend..." and after that i kinda get the idea that that part might have been terra talkin or it might have been Xehanort

That could have easily been MX talking from a sarcastic point of view.

Terra and Xemnas are too separate sentient existences. Xemnas is nothing more than a remnant of Terra, holding both his original body and soul. He has also been bequeathed with some of Terra's sensibilities: (His memories, his thoughts, his inability to feel nothing but anger, etc) However, he should not be mistaken with Terra.

Memories, debatable. Thoughts, I doubt it.

Terra's actual consciousness and persona is sealed within him.

When you mean "consciousness," you mean his persona within his heart? Like, what he would be in an Awakening.

Xemnas is an anomaly that should not exist in the first place. He is first Apprentice Xehanort's Nobody, but the vestige Apprentice Xehanort/AnsemSod left behind were originally Terra's. This is why Xemnas remembers his past as both Apprentice Xehanort and Terra.

There's nothing to confirm that Xemnas has Terra's memories. Maybe hints, but no actual confirmations.

 

[sora364]

Memories, debatable. Thoughts, I doubt it.

Sorry. This is irrefutable fact. Xemnas is confirmed to remember Ven in Days (even had Axel search for him in Castle Oblivion) and he obviously considers Aqua to be an "old friend." There is no other way around this. Xemnas shares some of Terra's memories. Are you insinuating Master Xehanort influenced these memories? Or that Xemnas has them, despite him not existing until long after Aqua and Ven met their fates? It is not even up for discussion. It has never been directly asserted; but he must share some of Terra's memories. He could not have known about Ven or Aqua any other way.

Thoughts? He has a motivation to see Aqua and Ven again. Are you telling me that Xemnas, who has never met Aqua or Ven, wants to see them for no reason? It is glaringly obvious his thoughts are influenced by Terra to a varying degree.

When you mean "consciousness," you mean his persona within his heart? Like, what he would be in an Awakening.

I mean that Terra himself is directly apart of Ansem Seeker of Darkness. Whether or not he has any influence over his heart or not, is an entirely separate story.

There's nothing to confirm that Xemnas has Terra's memories. Maybe hints, but no actual confirmations.

...You're kidding, right? The "hints" are borderline confirmation. He has them, and I cannot for the life of me assimilate why you are trying to deny it.

 

[chasespicer056]

Xemnas is not simply a puppet of Xehanort. Nomura made it very clear in the interview that 3D would touch on how Eraqus, Terra, and Xehanort's hearts and memories were divided.

It's very possible that much of Xemnas's motivations originate from Terra or Eraqus. After all, Terra seemed very determined at the end of BBS's secret ending to focus on his goal:

[video=youtube;BAEQ-aR9ZjY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAEQ-aR9ZjY[/video]

(1:17)

Even if you do wrest control of my heart from me... even if you cast me into the deepest darkest abyss... you'll never sway me from the one cause that pushes me to keep on fighting. Whatever the cost, I'm ready to pay it.

Terra isn't afraid of losing control over his heart. Since he is determined and has no fear of losing his heart, it seems he intends on keeping influence over his BODY.

Now Ansem SOD seemed pretty clear with his motivation for finding Kingdom Hearts. He wanted the raw power of darkness.

Xemnas, on the other hand, does not have such clear goals. Just glance at his final report in Days:

I must become one with Kingdom Hearts. I will become a higher existence. All of my true ambitions begin there

The cutscene in KH2 touches on it a bit more:

[video=youtube;R7bah7V18LA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7bah7V18LA&feature=relmfu[/video]

(3:29)

All that and more. I'm carrying on what you yourself began. I'm creating a brand new world, one heart at a time.

Although he was certainly manipulative and ruthless in Days, this goal does not seem as selfish as Ansem SOD's. Xemnas seems to be seeking power for improving the worlds.

Considering that Xemnas held on to Aqua's armor and was obsessed with finding Ven in the Chamber of Waking, I assert that Xemnas is not simply under the control of MX's control. He has much of MX's knowledge, but the influence for his true goals come from Terra.

As far as I'm concerned, Xemnas is essentially an emotionless Terra who has an obsession with finding Terra's old friends.

 

[Tails_Night]

I think so or he's the remainder of Terra, I mean with all this "friend" talk, and even some of his "expressions" resembling some of those of terra, It makes plenty of sense to me. Not to mention the much mentioned, Chamber of Awakening and Chamber of Sleep talk.

 

[Nayru's Love]

It has never been directly asserted;

MX? Yeah. Every hint that could be used for Terra could honestly be used for MX.

So...Sleep has taken you once again.

Possibly a reference to the beginning of BBS with Ven.

It's been a while....Friend.

It could be Xemnas speaking in a sarcastic tone.

but he must share some of Terra's memories. He could not have known about Ven or Aqua any other way.

MX.

Thoughts? He has a motivation to see Aqua and Ven again. Are you telling me that Xemnas, who has never met Aqua or Ven, wants to see them for no reason? It is glaringly obvious his thoughts are influenced by Terra to a varying degree.

You're jumping to conclusions. We don't know why he's looking for Ven/the CoW. In fact, we probably won't even know until we figure out the purpose of both the CoR and CoW.

...You're kidding, right? The "hints" are borderline confirmation. He has them, and I cannot for the life of me assimilate why you are trying to deny it.

I find it far easier to see MX as the primary influence of Xemnas, or at least a lot more than Terra.

 

[Genocide]

Eraqus is pretty old himself...he looked much older than 30 by my book

He looked older to e, considering the gray.

and that's how old Xemnas was said to be around. I don't see Ansem SoD being any older or younger, so I don't see how Eraqus' heart would make him look younger.

A heart does alter ones appearance in the KH Universe.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

MX? Yeah. Every hint that could be used for Terra could honestly be used for MX.

Exactly, most of the things Xemnas does can be also counted for MX.

Possibly a reference to the beginning of BBS with Ven.

It can be both honestly, MX after rupturing Ven's heart when he was a kid specifically mentions Ventus drifting into sleep in his reports while Terra was pretty shocked and felt guilty after Ven fell comatose the day MX brought him to Eraqus.

We can't say one of these is the correct one or maybe even both mixed together (considering how messed up Xemnas was).

It could be Xemnas speaking in a sarcastic tone.

It not only could be it is actually pretty probable as "old friend" is put there in quotation marks. Xehanort was always good in "keeping up appearances".

MX.

Lol, exactly. MX knew as much since he was present in the battle with Aqua in Final Episode and technically neither MX nor Terra should know of the Chamber of Waking, even less that Ventus is sleeping in it.
Putting the icing on the cake, neither of them should know that Ven's heart got heavily wounded a second time by destroying the X-blade, too.
(Except if we dig up the possible connection between MX and Vanitas from which he could have get something, yet that also brings us in the speculative realm).

You're jumping to conclusions. We don't know why he's looking for Ven/the CoW. In fact, we probably won't even know until we figure out the purpose of both the CoR and CoW.

I can only agree again. We don't have any information as to why Xemnas searches for Ven...the only thing we do know is that he's borderline obsessing over it, which can be either MX or Terra influence or a mix of both.

I find it far easier to see MX as the primary influence of Xemnas, or at least a lot more than Terra.

The only influence I see from Terra in him are similar looks due to it being Terra's body.
He has the golden Xehanort-eyes, the silver hair, is totally ruthless and uncaring, treats his own Organization members like garbage, has a god-complex and captures millions of innocent hearts for his wicked plans to reshape the universe, which is exactly the same as MX and Ansem SoD wanted, only by different means.
Ansem the Wise even calls him out on his "empire of ignorance" and especially in KH 2 in Xemnas's speech we see that his goals are the same as MX's and Ansem's.
He doesn't want to "improve" the worlds, he wants to create a "brand new world", which is the same end goal as MX himself. Destroy the current universe and make a new one as you see fit.

 

[KevVentus]

I really don't see how Xemnas can have any memories... When Terranort sealed his heart he lost his memory.

Then he removed himself even further from Terra's original form when he lost his heart.
And wasn't Roxas' lack of memories on account of Sora's short time as a Heartless?
Lo and behold, Ansem SoD came back too
(Unless there's some sort of distinction between Kairi restoring Sora and whatever happened to Ansem SoD).

Unless two negatives make a positive

It's very confusing

As for Eraqus, I'm uncomfortable accepting his heart becoming a plot point in 3D/future titles... they just skirted over the line so quickly... I guess it could help recover Terra's heart, but to me it just jumbles up things even further

 

[sora364]

MX? Yeah. Every hint that could be used for Terra could honestly be used for MX.

This is nonsensical. Xemnas would have no incentive to call Aqua "old friend" had this been due to Master Xehanort's influence.

I really don't see how Xemnas can have any memories... When Terranort sealed his heart he lost his memory.

It is transparently obvious his memories were restored at some point, since Xemnas remembers both his past as Terra and Master Xehanort. He sees Xion as Ven, and when he watched Roxas slumber after going to Castle Oblivion, he stated: "So...sleep has taken you yet again." That is an obvious allusion to Ven.

The ending of the the 2nd DDD trailer seems to indicate his memories were restored just before "slaying" the apprentices.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

This is nonsensical. Xemnas would have no incentive to call Aqua "old friend" had this been due to Master Xehanort's influence.

It is transparently obvious his memories were restored at some point, since Xemnas remembers both his past as Terra and Master Xehanort. He sees Xion as Ven, and when he watched Roxas slumber after going to Castle Oblivion, he stated: "So...sleep has taken you yet again." That is an obvious allusion to Ven.

You do know the meaning of sarcasm, right?

It is nowhere nonsensical as most of the things Xemnas says and does can also be applied to Master Xehanort.
Painting everything as Terra-related and then present it as fact is nonsensical, as Xemnas's acts and goals are way more Xehanort-like.

Read my previous post about it, all the stuff you mentioned can be also tied to MX.

 

[KevVentus]

I'm not doubting he has memories

That much is clear

I just don't understand how.

What do you mean by him "slaying" apprentices? When did that happen? Is this the Jump Festa trailer?

 

[Cosmic+Amarna]

I'm not doubting he has memories
What do you mean by him "slaying" apprentices? When did that happen? Is this the Jump Festa trailer?

There is a flashback scene that shows from a first person view, Apprentice Xehanort "slaying" the other apprentices when they are in Radiant Garden. He released their hearts, or killed them if you will. The AX snapped and summoned MX's keyblade and that is how a lot of the Organization got created.
Yes the 2012 Jump Festa

 

[KevVentus]

I remember that vaguely

Going to rewatch

 

[D.D.D]

I see it as this:
Xemnas feels as Terra does(at least, what he remembers feeling), but uses MX's methods to get where he wants or what he wants.
That's the sad part about it; Xemnas was so evil, but had an excuse for it. I mean, he was the Nobody of a conglomeration of an angry, betrayed teen whose dreams were stolen from him, and an evil mastermind bent on ruling the universe. He has only his remembered emotions, and according to what he told Sora, all he remembers is anger and hate(from Terra). Mix this with a crazy geezer obsessed with dominating everything, and you get a confused, unknowing, power bent, negative-emotioned lunatic who'll do anything to get what he wants.
Like Sephi said, Xemnas' goals were like MX. His feelings were from Terra.

 

[Nutari]

so we know Xehanort/AX/Terranort contains

BODY: Terra
HEART: Terra, Eraqus, and MX
SOUL: im guessing MX and/or Eraqus and/or nothing, because we know that Terra's soul is in LS

anyway. we also know that

body = heart + body + soul
nobody = body + soul
heartless= heart (i know, a heartless is a heart and a nobody is a body. WTF nomura?)

Terranort = heart(terra, MX, Eraqus) + body (Terra) + soul (which i will exclude from the rest of this due to not having a full understanding

so when Terranort was split during those experiments...

heart (terra, MX, Eraqus) = ansem SOD

body (Terra) = xemnas

lets look at xemnas first. i would think that since xemnas is solely Terra's body, when xehanort split, the body would simply become terra's body again. i dont understand why it made xemnas. however there is more.

then, when XH was formed, he was a mish-mosh of hearts. i however dont believe he contained terra's heart. just like when sora formed roxas, an extra heart inside of him left and joined with the body.

so i believe that terra's heart found its way into xemnas (terra's body). i think terra's heart would go to terra's body sooner then XH or Eraqus because that heart was once with that body, and is attracted to it, or something like that. therefore...

xemnas = terra heart + terra body

xemnas = terra?

i would think when terra's heart and terra's body join back up, terra would be reformed as he was when he was split. i would thing terranort's nobody (not really) would simply be terra, minus the soul in LS. so this says that xemnas has a heart, and that he IS terra. why doesn't he look like terra though? he kinda does, just older and with longer hair.

i know the experiments took place a year after BBS, and that he couldnt age that much in a year, and nobodies dont age. but xemnas isnt really a nobody, he is like roxas. he has a heart, and a body, so he can age.

basically my theory: XEMNAS IS AN AGED TERRA WHO LOST HIS MEMORIES

so XH is MX heart + Eraqus. we dont really know much about eraqus heart. i guess MX heart can explain why XH has the same clothes (without the shirt) as MX, and why he has an obsession with darkness. maybe eraqus' heart is what is keeping him from looking old?

this whole thing could also explain why xemnas shows terra-like tendencies, while XH does not. (so, sleep has taken you yet again. it has been a long time my friend)

anyway, that's my theory. any thoughts?

Sorry but I don't buy this theory at all. LS is the mind. Second: this theory is borderline outlandish, it tends to go against a lot of the things that have been established in the KH series

 

[KevVentus]

It was TGS, not Jump Festa

I remember now though. That scene sold me on KH3D. I'm very interested to find out what's going on there

 

[TheKeyInDarkness]

well Xemnas and Terranort had to have had a couple memories didnt he or else he wouldnt have known that the armor was his "old friend" and about castle oblivion or how to awaken kingdom hearts. during the one part of the trailer when he stabbed Braig Ienzo and Even he probably tried to go to his old home (like ven did subconsciously) and saw it was castle oblivion (he didnt know aqua changed it) as he walked through memories came back and once again Terra and Xehanort tried to fight for the body a heartless probably came up and did a dick move making Xemnas in castle oblivion and Ansem SoD in hollow bastion. the Xemnas (again suffering from tragic memory loss) stumbled through his once old home eventually finding ven but having no idea what to do with him and left to hollow bastion where he found Xigbar Zexion and Vexen. Xigbar remembered the most and told Xemnas about kingdom hearts and what he could remember they traveled outside to the corridors to see young Axel and Saix lying on the floor just waking up. later Xemnas investigates hollow bastion and investigates a hidden room through his memories and finds armor he then gets more of his memories back calling it old friend. anyway sorry for my dribble but thats how i see it