Did anyone dislike Xion?

[Ikkin]

Xion was also designed to appeal to girls, which is why she also has a lot of angtsy drama revolving around friendship. However, she was not designed for crushing; she was designed for projecting. She is written into painfully cliche situations that those girls attracted to Days because of the pretty boys would squee over, wishing it was them, and finally able to have proof that YES, Axel really would hang out with a little girl like me--um, Xion! Yes, Roxas really is a nice guy who would love and take good care of me--uh, Xion! And Riku would hold me in his arms--ah, I mean Xion! See, it's really possible for a little girl to be in the Organisation! You don't have to be an evil witch like Larxene! I could even fight with my very own keyblade! And sure some people would be nasty to me... but that only makes the pretty boys worry about me! And fight over me! Uwaa~

Xion... is not a very good character for projecting onto, honestly. Sure, she gets to be with Axel and Roxas... but the core of her story is her realizing that she shouldn't exist.

She's a deconstruction of a Sue, more than anything, with Xemnas being the Suethor - he created her to take Sora's place, with all of his powers but none of that pesky personality to get in the way of puppeteering the Keybearer. Her existence diminishes both Sora and Roxas (which makes the plot focus around her, though it's because she's a problem rather than because she's so awesome). And, eventually, it becomes clear that she'll destroy the "real" characters if she continues existing.

(It's a lot like the situation with Namine, actually - there's a lot of Sue traits there, but the focus is on why those traits would really be problematic if they were taken to their conclusions)

Of course, it's kind of tricky to make a sympathetic Sue deconstruction... especially when you're trying to make points about the nature of memory at the same time.

 

[Goldpanner]

I am so glad that while I do think "outside" the games on some issues... I don't go that far XD;

Go that far?? You mean you don't automatically understand these things as you play?

A story to me is meaningless unless I can get some emotional attachment from it, and once that applies, personal preferences, beliefs and views come into play.

You are exactly right here. And, though of course it's different for other people, it's hard for me to get emotionally attached when the mechanics of character design are incredibly obvious. Can you appreciate that...? Like, when the strings are very obvious, it's harder to believe that the puppets in the show are real. That’s the difference between bad writing and good writing; you see these strings, these bones in bad writing, it jarrs and pulls you out of the story.

So when Roxas hates on Axel because Axel attacked Xion - 1) to protect Roxas from her, 2) after a whole mission in which Roxas went around beating Xion up himself

Xion isn’t just standalone Xion. The way she interacts with other characters plays a huge part in how we understand her. That’s how stories work. And, because the characters aren’t written very well, you only have to look at this in reverse to see that the way other characters are portrayed in Days is usually to tell us something about/make us think something about/set up a scene about/make room for Xion.

So, I see Roxas’ behaviour as a choice on the writer’s part to further the pattern of Xion's design. It’s the kind of attention many fangirls would love to be the recipients of: Conflict between Roxas and Axel centring on Xion, check. Roxas worrying devotedly about Xion, check.

You see it as a reflection on Roxas as a person, that’s fine. I don’t like it either. But to me, it’s only another reason to resent the inclusion of a Sue character that means that Roxas has to play that role in her story.

Xion's concept might be lacking - and again, I still hate Nomura for being an idiot that plans stories based on "zomfg I want it to be a girl that made him up and leave" - but at least I like what he went and did with that crappy concept.

And that’s what it will always boil down to. You don’t care about the concept because you think she’s pulled off well, and I think the concept unfortunately influences every scene she’s in, and have different opinions as to what ‘pulled off well’ means. In the end, to you, there’s something about her that feels right, that just sits well with you. Everything we say here is just based on feelings, and I’m not going to tell you you’re ‘feeling it wrong’.

Xion... is not a very good character for projecting onto, honestly. Sure, she gets to be with Axel and Roxas... but the core of her story is her realizing that she shouldn't exist.

Well, the whole ‘I’m not meant to exist’ thing is just another way to milk angst, and make people feel sorry for her. Being tragic and picked on and then comforted by the pretty boys is something lots of fangirls would love to be, and is hence standard Sue behaviour. You are totally right: it’s a retarded thing to want. But, go read a few fics with OCs in them and you will see it crop up a lot.

She's a deconstruction of a Sue, more than anything, with Xemnas being the Suethor - he created her to take Sora's place, with all of his powers but none of that pesky personality to get in the way of puppeteering the Keybearer. Her existence diminishes both Sora and Roxas (which makes the plot focus around her, though it's because she's a problem rather than because she's so awesome). And, eventually, it becomes clear that she'll destroy the "real" characters if she continues existing.

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD She’s a sue in the actual plot as well as a sue by design XDDDDDDDDDDDD that is so funny.

 

[Smile]

You see it as a reflection on Roxas as a person, that’s fine. I don’t like it either. But to me, it’s only another reason to resent the inclusion of a Sue character that means that Roxas has to play that role in her story.

And to me, that's taking something you dislike from a character you do like and trying to find some excuse to "not hold it against him" :\ to me, this is you making Xion into a scapegoat. I personally think that Xion or no Xion, Roxas would've eventually acted that way towards Axel. I disliked their interaction in KH2 and think it's the same way as he treated Axel at the end of Days, and lord knows Xion wasn't even in planning for KH2 let alone included. And then they forgot about her.

Well, the whole ‘I’m not meant to exist’ thing is just another way to milk angst, and make people feel sorry for her. Being tragic and picked on and then comforted by the pretty boys is something lots of fangirls would love to be, and is hence standard Sue behaviour. You are totally right: it’s a retarded thing to want. But, go read a few fics with OCs in them and you will see it crop up a lot.

If you wanna go all the way with what you said before, getting Xion "out of the way" is another step towards making the self-insertion girls feel good about it all Xion was the "proof of concept" it could work and now that she's out of the way, they can move in to fill the void.

 

[leonidus]

Me.

She was completely random, completely unnecessary and used too much screen time.

I adore ORG XII. Possibly the best idea Nomura could have had for the series. However, the rest of the ORG had so little to do with the story, they don't get almost any development they should have and are just being put there for the sake of being there. I mean, Nomura, why? You have such a good basis, tons of characters already, potential - SKY HIGH! What do you do? Put some quazi-depressing character out of nowhere and make her the star. Smaaaart.

 

[Goldpanner]

And to me, that's taking something you dislike from a character you do like and trying to find some excuse to "not hold it against him" :\ to me, this is you making Xion into a scapegoat.

For Xion's role in this story to work, people have to want to be her: liked by the pretty boys, especially so by the male protagonist, Roxas. Therefore, Roxas' role in this story must be to worry over her, protect her and comfort her. Do you agree with that...?

See, you're too smart to be sucked in by the 'zomg that could be me' thing. That's probably why it didn't even cross your mind; you were never looking for that opportunity. Which means the intended 'omg Roxas would even turn from Axel, he so loves me--ah, her' thing doesn't work on you; in fact, you see straight through it and go 'hey wait. Poor Axel! D:'.

I personally think that Xion or no Xion, Roxas would've eventually acted that way towards Axel. I disliked their interaction in KH2 and think it's the same way as he treated Axel at the end of Days, and lord knows Xion wasn't even in planning for KH2 let alone included. And then they forgot about her.

Of course he would have; that's how it was in KHII. But in KHII, we didn't know exactly what happened to make him act like that, and I at least assumed it was because Axel had kept secrets or done something wrong and was desperately trying to make things right.

(I assumed Axel had been more like CoM Axel, spinning a clever web of lies and secrets, except this time it all came crashing down on him, and I was looking forward to seeing this unfold. I was looking forward to seeing cocky CoM Axel crash and burn and turn into KHII Axel, who practically crawled. But of course, that didn't happen. He was just a nice, helpful big brother figure who babysat children on endless playdates while trying to keep them safe from things that would hurt them, and patiently endured getting screwed over by the whole world until he finally snapped.)

Also, because DiZ told Riku that Roxas was being given a new personality to help conceal him, and because in the few scenes we saw him in he
X told Axel 'no one would miss me' in that bitchy tone
X told Riku to shut up
X smashed that computer
X told DiZ he hated him
X demanded Sora tell him 'why he chose you'
I assumed org Roxas was much colder and bitchier than he turned out to be in Days, and much more interesting. But, to assume is to make an ass of u and me. I know.

So anyway, Axel being treated badly wouldn't faze me all that much; I expected it. I just didn't expect that Axel would deserve it so less, and that Roxas would treat Axel badly because he himself was a mindless fluffly little lover boy.

So: why is Roxas like that? Because if he didn't care so much about her, Roxas lovers wouldn't find Xion as appealing to pretend to be. Why is it important that people want to pretend to be her? It shouldn't be. It's bad writing.

If you wanna go all the way with what you said before, getting Xion "out of the way" is another step towards making the self-insertion girls feel good about it all Xion was the "proof of concept" it could work and now that she's out of the way, they can move in to fill the void.

Yeah! Or, 'even if I die, he will dedicate his life to avenging me and I get to be a part of him and live in his head~'. :x

 

[Anonymous]

Put some quazi-depressing character out of nowhere and make her the star. Smaaaart.

This. (plus quazi-depressing is a fun word) =D

Seriously she had no basis. While she wasn't a terrible character, I feel like this game should have fleshed out the already existing Org members, not highlighted one who was unnecessary to begin with.

What probably annoys me the most about her is that even after having to watch how many cutscenes involving only her, I am still not 100% sure that I understand what the hell was going on with her. I mean that really random Zexion/Riku scene... what was the point of that?

 

[Smile]

I hate self insertion peeps. One fic, one mistake, 9 years ago. never since, never again.
I guess that really is a big part of why I can "forgive" most of the Mary Sueness in both Namine and Xion - I don't care for any of that XD; but to you it breaks the character, making the rest not matter as much as it could.

Seriously she had no basis. While she wasn't a terrible character, I feel like this game should have fleshed out the already existing Org members, not highlighted one who was unnecessary to begin with.

Aside from Nomura's silly decision to make Roxas leave the Org over a girl his own age, I say what I've said for a good while - if they could've created a story revolving around the existing Organization members sans the CoM members that would give us possible links to future installments - I'm pretty sure they would've, or at the very least, given us more of them inside a Xion-based game.
However, seeing how we were left with
Xigbar whose mysteries not only were already hinted towards but are too big to get into in a game not relating to him that much
Xaldin who was busy going after Beast and Belle, as a result of KH2
Luxord whose biggest role aside from being a sexy, wity Brit was to set up the poker league
Demyx, who aside from being lazy played his Sitar and dumped his missions on Roxas
And the CoM cast that went off and died after less than a month
They kind of had very little choice but to bring in another character from the outside.
How much they could get into the Replica Program and the Saix-Axel issue is debatable - but it still wouldn't net you a whole game on its own. You'd still need to fill up too much.

What probably annoys me the most about her is that even after having to watch how many cutscenes involving only her, I am still not 100% sure that I understand what the hell was going on with her.

Hey, I know - MAYBE THEY'LL EXPLAIN IT IN FUTURE INSTALLMENTS!
Yeah, you're all busy whining about her being useless and self-contained in Days that you never stop to think about that, now do you?

I mean that really random Zexion/Riku scene... what was the point of that?

Showing she had Riku's Memories and not only Sora's, which would make you think of how the hell she's related to him and how that would affect him in the long run *coughwieldingcough*

 

[Goldpanner]

I hate self insertion peeps. One fic, one mistake, 9 years ago. never since, never again.
I guess that really is a big part of why I can "forgive" most of the Mary Sueness in both Namine and Xion - I don't care for any of that XD; but to you it breaks the character, making the rest not matter as much as it could.

I think we understand eachother ♥

Xaldin who was busy going after Beast and Belle, as a result of KH2
Luxord whose biggest role aside from being a sexy, wity Brit was to set up the poker league
Demyx, who aside from being lazy played his Sitar and dumped his missions on Roxas
And the CoM cast that went off and died after less than a month
They kind of had very little choice but to bring in another character from the outside.

Why should it be that Xaldin should only go after Beast and Belle? Sure, he was in KHII, but they never said that it was his extra special mission he dedicated over a year to. Playing KHII, I assumed (ugh, here we go with what I assumed again) that the org had various plans and projects, and the Beauty and the Beast thing was only one of the tasks Xaldin had. I would have loved to see more of Xaldin; how did he come to think the way he did about love and emotion? What did he think about the other members of the org? He was one of the original six, after all, but we never get to see much about where he stands with everyone. That's why we got so confused wondering whether he knew about the replica project or not, wasn't it?

It's the same with Luxord. Who was he? Where did he come from? Sure, in Days he only had a small role, but why? Why no depth to his character?

As for Demyx, they also never said in KHII that he was lazy. They made him sound like a pacifist, with his, 'use violence? aw man, they picked the wrong guy for this...' line, and they made him look like a dork with his note cards, but with a dark streak from that 'silence traitor' line. Sure, in Days it turned out that he played his Sitar and dumped his missions on Roxas, but why did that have to be so? Why couldn't he have had missions in which he... i don't know. Maybe he started out as completely scared of being a nobody and had to grow into it; we could have seen him develop. Perhaps we could have explored his link to music, something closely related to emotion. Who was his other? Where did he come from? What is this dark side to him? Why couldn't this have been in the game?

The answer is: the writers knew that the game would be way more popular if there was a character tailor-made to appeal to the target audience; mainly Japanese primary school aged boys and junior high school aged girls. The little boys attracted to KH just wanna beat up heartless in Disney worlds with a keyblade, and the little girls attracted to KH just want to hang with their favourite characters. So, we get an extra young character with a keyblade who hangs out with the pretty boys. And, since she only had one game to really shine in, they had to make that one game really count: it had to be about her. That gave no time for fiddly things like telling us exactly where the hell Luxord came from and why he was in the org, or making Demyx anything more than an annoying stereotype.

It's unfortunate for older, wiser people like us who wanted real depth and girtty character development on the existing characters, and better plot than 'Roxas leaves org cause of a girl'. Ahhh, this game really hit home to me that I might be getting too old for this. And, perhaps it's my own fault for having built expectations based on things like this: A Sorrow of Magpies Chapter 1, a Kingdom Hearts fanfic - FanFiction.Net Please, if you haven't already, read it. It's totally gen, too. So. ;D

BbS, please aim higher ;o;

 

[Smile]

I think we understand eachother ♥

I don't think we ever didn't, actually. We're aware of that one biggest point of disagreement and accept it.
♥

Playing KHII, I assumed (ugh, here we go with what I assumed again) that the org had various plans and projects, and the Beauty and the Beast thing was only one of the tasks Xaldin had.

The thing is, think about it like this - why do people diss Xion so much? In part, because she was never referenced in KH2. Hence she has all but no importance to them despite the series not ending yet (and the likely scenario the Twilight Thorn would be retconned to be related to her, if they ever bothered with it).
So no. I doubt that for the entire year that Days spanned, the only thing Xaldin ever did was go to the Beast's Castle. But what true difference would it have made for us to see him hunting new Nobody recruits, which is his and Xigbar's roles? Could they have maybe hinted towards some new amazing Nobody recruit that would show up later? Yeah, that'd be neat and if one ever popped up it would certainly kill the masses' "omfg it was never referenced" they like to use over Xion (even though if you bother with the novels, you see she WAS referenced there plentifully enough, even if people liked to wave it off over Repliku - lawl they're from the same project and all).
But what difference would it have really made, seeing how none of it affected KH2? True, yes, Xion seemingly didn't, either - but that's the point. Why make it worse?

I would have loved to see more of Xaldin; how did he come to think the way he did about love and emotion?

I think we're more likely to see that about Dilan, and as for the Apprenteices' Nobodies I think that's part of WHY we somehow got to see more insight into Luxord and Demyx as characters then we did them (aside from CoM doing it for half of them) - BBS would cover that ground. I know, again it means that Days has a much lesser value than it could've had - but why give out content that they would?
And that's before we get to the fact that that's how Nobodies, at least the Apprentices' Nobodies, think. They're painfully aware for the fact they don't have Hearts and what a Heart gives and takes from you. They gave up their Hearts for it - I think that's enough explanation about why Xaldin looks down at it so much (though I laughed myself silly in another replay when he said that love never lasts. poor Dilan had a crush on Ter I mean Aqua that didn't go well?)

What did he think about the other members of the org? He was one of the original six, after all, but we never get to see much about where he stands with everyone. That's why we got so confused wondering whether he knew about the replica project or not, wasn't it?

I think that was because of how they phrased when he asked about it XD; and I say what I said back then - the members that knew, referenced it. Xaldin didn't.

It's the same with Luxord. Who was he? Where did he come from? Sure, in Days he only had a small role, but why? Why no depth to his character?

Dead weight character, as much as I love him. And that's something I never did get from Day 1 with the Organization in KH2 - if you were going to bother with so many characters, why not do anything with them? I'd sooner blame that on KH2 than Days though, seeing how Xion or no Xion, the main role was Roxas, and Luxord had all but nothing to do with him. About the only reason we really get insight about Saix as well is Axel, and the reason we get insight about Axel (plot wise, not popularity) is Roxas again. Luxord's detached.

Sure, in Days it turned out that he played his Sitar and dumped his missions on Roxas, but why did that have to be so? Why couldn't he have had missions in which he... i don't know.

Because he's a Nobody. And let's face it part of why we adore the CoM cast isn't because they're that deep or developed - it's because they were each and every one complete and utter bastards to the last of their Darkness-manipulated bones if Nobodies have them. Larxene only showed a pretense of compassion when it was to manipulate Namine or hurt Sora through it. The same was with Marluxia. Vexen outright didn't care, Lexaeus despite seemingly being the 'better man' there still pounded a kid to the ground, and Zexion was a scared little rat that did whatever he could to get away from direct conflict until there was absolutely no choice left. Part of why the original GBA didn't have a fight with him, imo - he's not a fighter.
You'd think that through their interaction with Roxas the remaining members might've changed, but we still don't know what the real gist with Axel is. For all we know the change was either from Sora, not Roxas, or from Castle Oblivion itself, so we really can't say whether or not hanging out with Roxas would've "enlightened" the rest of the Organization. Demyx did have this moment in the Coliseum where he was worried about Roxas and he did have his moments of concern when things were going rough with Xion, but seeing his overall behavior it's hard for me to say he really "cared" - even in Nobody standards. Otherwise it's hard to explain why he was so happy he dodged a bullet in CO - when half of his comrades died out. Relating to the "traitor" comment. He's a Nobody that doesn't really give an f.

Maybe he started out as completely scared of being a nobody and had to grow into it; we could have seen him develop.

That's a time span that goes way before Days started though. I'd imagine he'd be over it by then.

Perhaps we could have explored his link to music, something closely related to emotion. Who was his other? Where did he come from? What is this dark side to him? Why couldn't this have been in the game?

That I do agree with that it would've been nice exploring their past as Somebodies. Just to point out though they couldv'e done it plentifully even with Xion being in game. I mean fawk, they had originally planned to have a mission per Day. That's an unholy amount of 358 missions. Yet when it came time to cut it down, we were left with missions that gave us nothing with RAX sitting at the end and eating ice cream. That's not Xion's fault as we had enough of that, and even then some missions didn't have that. I guess they just didn't think it was important enough.
Alternatively and that is something I'm half hopeful about - they're planning on doing something with it and Days wouldn't be the place to start it with. See again above explanation to why with it needing to relate back to Roxas in some way, and even us finding out about Lea was because Saix and Axel were talking about Roxas.

That gave no time for fiddly things like telling us exactly where the hell Luxord came from and why he was in the org, or making Demyx anything more than an annoying stereotype.

And that's where I disagree with you. Again - if they wanted to do something with the rest of the Org, they could've. The game had more than its share of useless missions. They failed to do so regardless.

Ahhh, this game really hit home to me that I might be getting too old for this.

Should I be sad that I'm getting old enough to appreciate this kiddy shiz again? XD; or that I'm above caring about it?

And, perhaps it's my own fault for having built expectations based on things like this: A Sorrow of Magpies Chapter 1, a Kingdom Hearts fanfic - FanFiction.Net Please, if you haven't already, read it. It's totally gen, too. So. ;D

I tend not to read fanfiction, mostly about the Org. For obvious reasons - with the exception of RAX, I don't really give a damn XD like I said before about emotional attachment, and I'll say something possibly cruel. They're Nobodies. They're cool and awesome and all but if I can't bring myself to feel sympathy towards them (which is something Xion got from me even before the real "BAW SO SAD" part of her story kicked in) I don't really bother with them (as much as I love Luxord, but I suppose that's because I'm still at liberty to enjoy what so many people had before Days, and that's to do whatever I want with him as the canon didn't. it doesn't hold as much as it used to for the rest of the Org. Ask Organization_42 about what Days did to RAD XD; )

BbS, please aim higher ;o;

So long as BBS will keep in mind that it needs to tell us the story of TAV, MX and Vanitas, and not be about the Apprentices and Zack, we should be fine. But the last scans I let myself see have left me in despair.

 

[WayToTwilight]

I also find Xion extremly annoying. She never does anything right. and roxas is prancitally drooling at her feet. she faints alot and that one part in the game annoyed the hell outta me. its all saix's fault. (i blame him ffor a lot of the problems in that game)

 

[namine_ftw]

She could have been a lot worse, but she definitely could have been better :/ I felt no sympathy whatsoever when she was angsting in the middle in the game (though I did towards the end), which just felt forced, IMO. Also, I'm not a fan of her origin. At all.

I too would have liked if the other members got more time in the spotlight in exchange for a couple of pointless ice cream scenes or irrelevant missions (yes, I know that the scenes help the overall atmosphere of the game but cutting out two or three really wouldn't be that devastating). Aside from the apprentices, I don't see the point in having the stories of the other members continue in future games. Days would have been the prime time to reveal more information about them, but aside from some hints about Saix and Axel, it didn't.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

...honestly, why isn't there a Xion Hate Club? :/ I mean, with everything I read, it makes me wonder what one is waiting for (and they can actually talk about hating her without anybody interrupting), and I'm surprised.




Anyway, back to what I wanted to counter:

Honestly, I thought Roxas acting that way with Xion and Axel fighting was understandable. This was a kid who had no idea what was going on (and no one still never told him until he had to find out by Xemnas in a meeting). Unlike the other two involved. So, yeah, it's very easy to say (or for Xion to say) that it's alright when Axel threw a flaming chakram at her easily, started battling, and technically, were heading to hurt each other (to a bystander), and when pleaded to stop, which Xion did, Axel karate chops her neck and makes her go unconscious. And these guys are suppose to be best friends. You know. Never hurt each other. And all this because Xion raised a weapon, when it was obviously done hesitantly, and she didn't attack or, like she did in the mansion, posed to fight Roxas in any way. Roxas said it himself: it could have been done or solved another way. Actually, with Xion not doing anything yet, they still could have talked it out. So it wasn't like the guy was in a life and death situation so OMG Axel needed to save him and end crap like that.

I mean, I don't know about you. But with a real life example, I wouldn't know what to think when a best friend (the culprit) suddenly slams a fist or slap to his other best friend for no reason and start a fight out of nowhere while you're standing there going WTF. Roxas said that it was a jerk thing to do, because yeah, it actually was in retrospect. I don't know why someone who cares for someone else wouldn't be upset that it had to go down in that matter, especially when the other was suppose to be their best friend too. And I don't get where Axel being this innocent, and poor thing is coming from either. Sympathetic, yeah. But he isn't Jesus by any means.

And I don't get the first reason either. Roxas fought her? You mean, when he had no idea that the Heartless he was fighting was Xion until Axel cut in? Or the end when she turned into the machines, where he either had to fight or die? Those are different situations completely.

 

[Smile]

...honestly, why isn't there a Xion Hate Club? :/ I mean, with everything I read, it makes me wonder what one is waiting for (and they can actually talk about hating her without anybody interrupting), and I'm surprised.

I can open one for you if you want to this badly

Honestly, I thought Roxas acting that way with Xion and Axel fighting was understandable. This was a kid who had no idea what was going on (and no one still never told him until he had to find out by Xemnas in a meeting). Unlike the other two involved. So, yeah, it's very easy to say (or for Xion to say) that it's alright when Axel threw a flaming chakram at her easily, started battling, and technically, were heading to hurt each other (to a bystander), and when pleaded to stop, which Xion did, Axel karate chops her neck and makes her go unconscious.

The thing is it still leads to
1) Roxas beat her up all through the mission so I'd expect some guilt on his part. None of that.
2) Xion pulled a Keyblade at him first. More so than him being pissed off at Axel for not stopping when he pleaded him to, it's the violence, period, and that's something I don't get.

Roxas said it himself: it could have been done or solved another way.

Xion herself said otherwise. She was intent on not coming back, and the only reason why she did was because Axel took her back. And we both know that's not something Roxas would've accepted as "solved", just letting her go.

Actually, with Xion not doing anything yet, they still could have talked it out. So it wasn't like the guy was in a life and death situation so OMG Axel needed to save him and end crap like that.

1) I wonder if Axel knew that.
2) Roxas: I don't think it's safe for Xion here any more (read: don't drag Xion back even if you find her)
Axel: if I don't bring her back, it's not safe for ME here anymore, either.
It was a life and death situation - for Axel. And you'd think that by then, almost a year into being with the Organization, that Roxas would've known how things worked at least more than what was shown. He saw how the organization acted. He heard what was said to Axel when the orders were issued. He shouldn't have been that clueless.

And I don't get the first reason either. Roxas fought her? You mean, when he had no idea that the Heartless he was fighting was Xion until Axel cut in? Or the end when she turned into the machines, where he either had to fight or die? Those are different situations completely.

I meant in that very mission. You can argue gameplay mechanics all you wanted but until someplace else says otherwise, the mission included taking the "impostor" down, and Roxas attacked her all through that mission. And unlike with Riku who was kickass and uber 1337, Xion didn't block all of his attacks.

 

[gelandporn]

...honestly, why isn't there a Xion Hate Club? :/ I mean, with everything I read, it makes me wonder what one is waiting for (and they can actually talk about hating her without anybody interrupting), and I'm surprised.

If you're being serious, I think it's because it would almost be self-defeating.
You're garnering attention to a character you don't even like by doing so.

I think when "hate" is used, here at least (and for the most part), it doesn't mean people have some sort of vendetta against Xion (where they're willing to try and convince others of this hate), but that they don't care enough for her character for whatever reason.

It's more like "She wasn't a very great character, didn't do much for me, and don't care to advertise that" rather than "She made a negative impact on the series and I want others to be made aware of this."

 

[Smile]

If you're being serious, I think it's because it would almost be self-defeating.
You're garnering attention to a character you don't even like by doing so.

I do agree that negative publicity is publicity regardless, but it's ever so fun to vent.
I should know.

I think when "hate" is used, here at least (and for the most part), it doesn't mean people have some sort of vendetta against Xion (where they're willing to try and convince others of this hate), but that they don't care enough for her character for whatever reason.

More so than not care about her character, their reasons for disdain aren't "personal". It's not that Xion the "person" is one they dislike or frown upon - it's her placement in the plot and the impact she had on other characters that they disagree with.
And with that I agree. Nomura himself admitting Xion's very existence is because he wanted Roxas to leave the org over a girl his age and the only female around was Larxene so they needed to make a new one made me want to wring his neck. But not everyone can favor the "person" enough like me to not care about the "package".

"She made a negative impact on the series and I want others to be made aware of this."

This reminds me of why I bothered writing the essay XD;

 

[Deleted member 60399]

At first I didn't like her that much. But now I do. I really feel sorry for her I mean she was treated badly by others for being a replica and she disappears in the end. The poor girl.

 

[yandell123]

Xion's pretty well developed and likable. :l
I would rant on, but too lazy @_@

To be honest, this would be more of a reason to hate Roxas than Xion. Blame him for being a whiny little kid. *Roxas fan >_>;*

ya i do like him a little i dont se any reason wy not to

 

[Goldpanner]

It's more like "She wasn't a very great character, didn't do much for me, and don't care to advertise that" rather than "She made a negative impact on the series and I want others to be made aware of this."

I think the latter, actually. And I'd join any hate club for her. Except I'd probably get tired of wank after a while.

 

[Ikkin]

It's not that Xion the "person" is one they dislike or frown upon - it's her placement in the plot and the impact she had on other characters that they disagree with.

It seems to me like the main problem is the way the other characters developed - Xion takes the blame because she's got some Common Mary Sue Traits, so that's obviously her fault.

Axel and Roxas are both much nicer than they seemed to be from the other games... well, that's obviously because they needed to be nice to the Sue, not because that's really part of their character. Leave aside the fact that Roxas' personality is strongly based around his own lack of memories (and hence, lack of any point of reference for basically everything), leave aside the fact that it actually makes a lot of sense that Axel's interest in Roxas is based in nostalgia for his own childhood and it actually makes sense for him to be a nice guy when he's trying to preserve that.

As for the other Org. members, while they don't really get all too much screen-time, it's pretty clear to me that they're shallow on purpose. Giving them more to do wouldn't change the fact that, apparently, the loss of one's heart tends to result in the loss of the more subtle aspects of one's personality.

And with that I agree. Nomura himself admitting Xion's very existence is because he wanted Roxas to leave the org over a girl his age and the only female around was Larxene so they needed to make a new one made me want to wring his neck.

I'm not sure you're being entirely fair to him with this - he's always said that he derives the key moments in the theories from "images," and "Roxas left because of a girl his age" is probably just one of those. There's a bit of difference in my mind between having the story create itself like that and thinking of all of the possibilities and choosing a fangirlish one. =P

 

[Audo]

For what it's worth (which i know is nothing) I put Xion through a Mary Sue Litmus test and she only came out as a "Borderline Sue".

Yes, i was bored.