Do you Believe....

[terraisawesome12]

I don't like any pairing, but believe that Sora is, indeed, gay for Riku. He cares nothing for Kairi; Kairi deserves to be with Riku, who went through Hell for her.

 

[Smile]

Kairi deserves to be with Riku, who went through Hell for her.

If anything, Riku's the one who deserves it since he's the one who allegedly put any effort into it.
But I kind of doubt that, how the games had him twice kind of shrug Kairi off (DI and TT) and he only seemed to bother after the games established one hell of a jealousy-complex for him in regards to Sora. xD

 

[rokudamia2]

Isn't Disney a gay friendly company?

If so then It's possible.

 

[lilVon]

Isn't Disney a gay friendly company?

If so then It's possible.

No actually i think their the exact opposite, unless you mean gay in the sense of happiness...

 

[Smile]

What're you talking about? They have gay parades in their theme parks

 

[lilVon]

really? OK my bad, I thought that I read somewhere that they weren't

And Ive never been to a gay pride parade and their weren't any last time i went their.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

really? OK my bad, I thought that I read somewhere that they weren't

And Ive never been to a gay pride parade and their weren't any last time i went their.

Lol I went to Gay Days 2009. Was fun. The park opened later than normal, but it was cool! They had this drag queen fiesta thing and they were dancing around. And I remember seeing Mega 64 being there being stupid.

 

[Evello]

I don't think that any of the guys in KH are gay. In fact, it kind of bothers me that if any guy character shows any kind of real friendliness towards another guy, they're immediately gay in this series. I suppose that in a fanbase filled with the typical fangirls this is to be expected, I'm just really not used to it.

Granted, Sora's crying session was a little over-dramatic with Riku, but Riku himself constantly says how special Kairi is to Sora, and the entire series was based on Sora's search for Kairi. Plus no Soriku fans ever seem to remember the creepy Halloween Town Sokai dance. Sora definitely cares about Kairi... maybe a little too much...

As for Roxas, I don't think it's too unreasonable for him to become very close friends with the only person he actually knows; the only person who isn't a total jerk. And as Days proved, Roxas was just as close with Xion as he was with Axel. He only seems closer to Axel because throughout KH2 Roxas didn't remember Xion.

 

[Smile]

I don't think that any of the guys in KH are gay. In fact, it kind of bothers me that if any guy character shows any kind of real friendliness towards another guy, they're immediately gay in this series. I suppose that in a fanbase filled with the typical fangirls this is to be expected, I'm just really not used to it.

As was raised before in this thread, you would've had a point, BUT - a similar if not worse a treatment is often given towards male-female relationships.
Sora and Riku, for instance, are about the best, most established relationship in the game. Then why, oh why, are they not possibly romantic with each other whereas some relationships like Sora and Kairi, despite not being satisfactory in the eye of quite a bit of the fandom, are?

Granted, Sora's crying session was a little over-dramatic with Riku, but Riku himself constantly says how special Kairi is to Sora, and the entire series was based on Sora's search for Kairi.

Uh, what? KH1 was Sora's search for Kairi and Riku and at the end, Sora left Kairi behind to go look for Riku.
CoM was Sora's chasing of Riku and then of Namine - another girl.
KH2 was, once again, Sora's search of Riku until Kairi was kidnapped, but I dare anyone to tell me Sora would've left the Org alone if Kairi'd have stayed safely on the islands.
So I'd sooner say the entire series was based on Sora's search for Riku with Kairi thrown in at times for plot reasons if not downright shenanigans.
And with all due respect to Riku and Namine saying Sora cares for Kairi, it's hard for me to take it seriously when Sora treats both Kairi and Namine so differently, and the biggest SoNami Memory was, despite Namine's claims of having replaced Kairi - is most likely a Sora and Riku Memory if not a new Memory altogether.
And then we have such scenes like in the FM+ where Sora remembered both Namine and Kairi at the same time and right before his fight with Xemnas, didn't think about Kairi but rather, how he never got to thank Namine.

So excuse me if SoKai isn't really a good issue to raise because, frankly? Looking at the KH2 reunions? I dare say Kairi's part of why people do ship SoRiku.

Plus no Soriku fans ever seem to remember the creepy Halloween Town Sokai dance.

I cuddle and hug and bounce with my male friends. I'd sooner blame that flashback on, ya know, CONTEXT, if not Namine complications altogether.
It takes more than a dance and a wall painting flashback to base an otherwise say-so relationship.

Sora definitely cares about Kairi... maybe a little too much...

Nah, still don't buy it.

As for Roxas, I don't think it's too unreasonable for him to become very close friends with the only person he actually knows; the only person who isn't a total jerk. And as Days proved, Roxas was just as close with Xion as he was with Axel. He only seems closer to Axel because throughout KH2 Roxas didn't remember Xion.

Wot? Neither Luxord nor Xigbar were such utter jerks towards Roxas.
And to play devil's advocate, AkuRoku never seemed close to me in KH2, either xD;;;

 

[Evello]

As was raised before in this thread, you would've had a point, BUT - a similar if not worse a treatment is often given towards male-female relationships.
Sora and Riku, for instance, are about the best, most established relationship in the game. Then why, oh why, are they not possibly romantic with each other whereas some relationships like Sora and Kairi, despite not being satisfactory in the eye of quite a bit of the fandom, are?

I don't think anyone in the series is "in a relationship," exactly. KH tries to stay towards the friendship end of things, so I really doubt that even Sora and Kairi are in a romantic relationship in the way fans try to construe it.

Uh, what? KH1 was Sora's search for Kairi and Riku and at the end, Sora left Kairi behind to go look for Riku.

At the beginning, it was a search for both Riku and Kairi. After Sora saw Riku once, though, he totally forgot about rejoining Riku and devoted all his time to Kairi and the keyholes. Riku disappears all the time and Sora's like "Riku, where are you? Oh well, let's go!"

CoM was Sora's chasing of Riku and then of Namine - another girl.

Sora stopped caring about Riku, though. All he cared about by the end was his "special one," who Namine cut+pasted herself in for. All Sora could remember were his strongest memories, which were the ones of Kairi that Namine replaced.

KH2 was, once again, Sora's search of Riku until Kairi was kidnapped, but I dare anyone to tell me Sora would've left the Org alone if Kairi'd have stayed safely on the islands.

Obviously Kairi was already safe, so Sora had no reason to look for Kairi. Riku however, was still missing. And then Kairi was kidnapped, so he went right back to saving her. The creepy dance scene showed that even though Sora was looking for Riku, he was still looking forward to seeing Kairi again.

So I'd sooner say the entire series was based on Sora's search for Riku with Kairi thrown in at times for plot reasons if not downright shenanigans.
And with all due respect to Riku and Namine saying Sora cares for Kairi, it's hard for me to take it seriously when Sora treats both Kairi and Namine so differently, and the biggest SoNami Memory was, despite Namine's claims of having replaced Kairi - is most likely a Sora and Riku Memory if not a new Memory altogether.

Except for pretty much all of KH1 when Riku was an afterthought. And what memory are you talking about? If you mean the shooting star one... I have a pretty hard time imagining Riku asking for Sora to protect him.

And then we have such scenes like in the FM+ where Sora remembered both Namine and Kairi at the same time and right before his fight with Xemnas, didn't think about Kairi but rather, how he never got to thank Namine.

He didn't forget/accidentally break any promises to Kairi, so I don't think his "d'oh" is anything to read too much in to.

So excuse me if SoKai isn't really a good issue to raise because, frankly? Looking at the KH2 reunions? I dare say Kairi's part of why people do ship SoRiku.

I probably shouldn't have brought up Sokai, but it still bugs me that just because Sora and Riku are good friends and show emotion around each other every once and a while, they're considered gay. By a lot of people. A lot.

Wot? Neither Luxord nor Xigbar were such utter jerks towards Roxas.
And to play devil's advocate, AkuRoku never seemed close to me in KH2, either xD;;;

They weren't jerks, but they weren't exactly keen to hang out with him. Roxas had a heart, so heartless creeps just weren't going to cut it with him.

Whatever, I just don't think romance is at all where KH is trying to go. Nomura seems to support SoKai the most (Kairi's very special to Sora, eh? How so, Mr. Nomura?), but I think he's trying to keep the series limited to friendship. I just feel that romance, especially the "forbidden romance" between people like Sora and Riku and Roxas and Axel ruins the entire message about friendship that the series is trying to portray.

I guess since Nomura never says definitively, anything goes. [laughs]

 

[Evello]

Whoops, pressed the button twice. Mods, feel free to delete.

 

[Smile]

At the beginning, it was a search for both Riku and Kairi. After Sora saw Riku once, though, he totally forgot about rejoining Riku and devoted all his time to Kairi and the keyholes. Riku disappears all the time and Sora's like "Riku, where are you? Oh well, let's go!"

He hardly forgot about rejoining him, but it's not like Riku left him much of a choice in Traverse Town. And then Riku became more of an antagonist, needing more to be saved/stopped than someone Sora could rejoin with.

Sora stopped caring about Riku, though. All he cared about by the end was his "special one," who Namine cut+pasted herself in for. All Sora could remember were his strongest memories, which were the ones of Kairi that Namine replaced.

It's not like Sora had a choice though, he basically forgot about everyone other than Namine.
And excuse me if I call bull upon the whole "replaced Kairi in Sora's Memories" bit. The biggest, most important Sora-Namine Memory was the Memory of the Promise, which if it really was a replaced Memory could NOT have been one of Kairi originally. The Meteor Shower is, after all, when Kairi only reached the islands. Seeing how both Sora and Repliku had variations of that Memory, I'd sooner say it was a Sora-RIKU Memory that Namine toyed with, but hey, that means that Namine replaced RIKU in Sora's Memory rather than Kairi. Xion being brought into the game makes this even more logical since at that point, Namine wouldn't have had Kairi Memories to toy with - Xion ate them up, leaving Namine to either replace OTHER PEOPLE (lol, RIKU) or create Memories from scratch.

If you mean the shooting star one... I have a pretty hard time imagining Riku asking for Sora to protect him.

That's the part that was re-written, obviously. I doubt Namine only stops at slapping her face on people in Sora's Memories.

He didn't forget/accidentally break any promises to Kairi, so I don't think his "d'oh" is anything to read too much in to.

He was actually pretty damn eager to do that, what with agreeing to become the Darkness with Riku right after promising Kairi he'd see her every day.

I probably shouldn't have brought up Sokai, but it still bugs me that just because Sora and Riku are good friends and show emotion around each other every once and a while, they're considered gay. By a lot of people. A lot.

Like I said before - had Sora or Riku been girls, they would've been shipped like woah by het supporting people. Why? Because it's there. That's the stuff friendships need to turn into something more in the eyes of the fans. Lord knows girls and boys are shipped for less.
So yes, they're the best friends and show emotion towards each other. Excuse me if I ship them because it WORKS.

Roxas had a heart, so heartless creeps just weren't going to cut it with him.

And that's why he and Axel are BFFs, huh?

I just feel that romance, especially the "forbidden romance" between people like Sora and Riku and Roxas and Axel ruins the entire message about friendship that the series is trying to portray.

That's... going pretty damn far, man. Seriously.

 

[Sephiroth0812]

I can see however from which point Ragnell is coming...sometimes this "over-forcing" of romantic issues on relationships between nearly every character is hard to swallow, not to mention somewhat unrealistic.
I honestly often don't get why there are such difficulties to accept a relationship between two characters of the same gender may be just a very close bonding without any "romantic" or *gasp*, "sexual" nature.
On the other side, I just shake my head when then the "over-sensitive" homophobics enter the stage and announce every relationship that goes closer than sitting beside each other and talking as "gay" in form of romantic/sexual interaction.

Seriously, people in both parties need to calm down. Not every embrace or emotional outbreak indicates a romantic relationship and i.e. Axel stating his loyalty and affection for Roxas doesn't necessary mean he wants to get inside Roxas's pants...
...neither would a real "romantic" shaped relationship i.e. between Sora and Riku be the end of the world or make both characters somewhat dirty...

That's also why I voted "possibly", there are indicators that can hint at such feelings and I for gods sake wouldn't mind them.
Yet as Ragnell stated, KH is supposed to show of "pure" and "innocent" relationships so i.e. an embrace between Sora and Ven should be seen mostly from this perspective.

I certainly don't remember who it was, but I once read an essay about KH where the author did make the statement that all characters in KH are bisexual anyways...lol

 

[Crystal]

I don't mind whether the characters are homosexual or bisexual xD
I don't think KH having some romantic stuff, but impliedly gay for each other lol
Most likely, the male character are more towards brotherly love .
Like Sora and Riku, Sora cares Riku more than Kairi.

 

[Stars]

I don't mind KH character being homo or bisexual.. It was just nice to see the interaction between them.. i mean yeah.. they may be brotherly love, not truly love each other lol like Axel cares for Roxas, Ventus cares for Terra..Sora cares for Riku.. they may be just appreciate such valuable freindship..and don't want to lost it

 

[Evello]

He hardly forgot about rejoining him, but it's not like Riku left him much of a choice in Traverse Town. And then Riku became more of an antagonist, needing more to be saved/stopped than someone Sora could rejoin with.

If Sora really wanted to find and help Riku, he could have tried a little harder to actually find him. Hard to save someone on a different world.

It's not like Sora had a choice though, he basically forgot about everyone other than Namine.
And excuse me if I call bull upon the whole "replaced Kairi in Sora's Memories" bit. The biggest, most important Sora-Namine Memory was the Memory of the Promise, which if it really was a replaced Memory could NOT have been one of Kairi originally. The Meteor Shower is, after all, when Kairi only reached the islands. Seeing how both Sora and Repliku had variations of that Memory, I'd sooner say it was a Sora-RIKU Memory that Namine toyed with, but hey, that means that Namine replaced RIKU in Sora's Memory rather than Kairi. Xion being brought into the game makes this even more logical since at that point, Namine wouldn't have had Kairi Memories to toy with - Xion ate them up, leaving Namine to either replace OTHER PEOPLE (lol, RIKU) or create Memories from scratch.

So there can only ever be a meteor shower when the walls of a world break? I assumed it was just, you know, a regular meteor shower. Especially since Xehanort already knew what one looked like and knew what it was called before he collapsed the walls of his world. If they only happened when the world's wall collapses, then he would have no way of knowing about them, since Radiant Garden's wall was up. So Kairi could have already been on DI during the meteor shower.

As an aside, I don't remember Days very well. Didn't Xion only begin to absorb Sora's memories after he went to sleep? Or was it just when Namine wiped him in CO?

He was actually pretty damn eager to do that, what with agreeing to become the Darkness with Riku right after promising Kairi he'd see her every day.

It wasn't like he forgot her, he just literally couldn't get to her. No reason to agonize over what you can't fix. He forgot his promise to Namine completely, though. So he just blurted out "Oh crap I forgot!" and then went back to what he was doing.

Like I said before - had Sora or Riku been girls, they would've been shipped like woah by het supporting people. Why? Because it's there. That's the stuff friendships need to turn into something more in the eyes of the fans. Lord knows girls and boys are shipped for less.
So yes, they're the best friends and show emotion towards each other. Excuse me if I ship them because it WORKS.

I suppose my problem is more with shipping in general. But hey, to each his/her own.

And that's why he and Axel are BFFs, huh?

Yup.

That's... going pretty damn far, man. Seriously.

Sorry, perhaps I worded that wrong. I didn't really mean it to be controversial at all. And I don't have a problem if the characters are canonically gay or whatever. I was just saying that Soriku by necessity adds a whole new conflict to the story, since everyone in the games (including Riku) assumes Sora likes Kairi. So now you've got a huge romantic mess to resolve as Sora attempts to switch his romance from one friend to the other, which detracts from the actual message about close friendship that the story is trying to get across. I suppose some people go for that kind of stuff, but I personally like where the series currently is.

 

[Smile]

If Sora really wanted to find and help Riku, he could have tried a little harder to actually find him. Hard to save someone on a different world.

He was running around every world he could get to. And to be fair, it's not like he was all that concerned with Kairi in KH1, either. It's either he was actively looking for the both of them or neither. So.
And in KH2, even when Kairi WAS kidnapped, it switched from looking for only Riku to looking for the both of them. As I like to say, about the only time in the series where Kairi got Sora's attention all to herself was in KH1's Hollow Bastion, and even that's because Riku was too busy playing antagonist, not because Sora didn't care.

So there can only ever be a meteor shower when the walls of a world break? I assumed it was just, you know, a regular meteor shower. Especially since Xehanort already knew what one looked like and knew what it was called before he collapsed the walls of his world. So Kairi could have already been there.

So far the only meteor showers cited in the series happened when the walls between the worlds broke, making it likely to have been -that- Meteor Shower.
Also, Namine's reaction in that made-up Memory adds up far too nicely - she's scared of the Meteor Shower that brought Kairi to the Islands.
Then there's the element where both Repliku and Sora had the same Memory. So either Namine made a whole new Memory for the both of them, making Kairi not relevant, or she used one where the both of them were already there, making it likelier that she replaced Sora and Riku for Repliku and Sora, not Kairi.

Didn't Xion only begin to absorb Sora's memories after he went to sleep? Or was it just when Namine wiped him in CO?

Xion received her Kairi face during CoM. In fact, the day she received her face, going by the timeline in the Ultimania, is before Sora fought Vexen. It was then in CoM that Sora completely forgot Kairi, and it turned from being "Sora, Riku, Kairi and Namine" to just SRN, no K.
So no. Xion was absorbing Sora and Roxas's powers and Memories already there. It's just that Sora wouldn't have known since his Memories were already lost to him.

He forgot his promise to Namine completely, though. So he just blurted out "Oh crap I forgot!" and then went back to what he was doing.

Did you even see that scene? He was mourning not being able to thank her, and then talked about knowing it won't be so easy. Riku then reassures him that once they defeated Xemnas and set things right, he could go back and see her.
One of my favorite FM+ scenes.

since everyone in the games (including Riku) assumes Sora likes Kairi.

Seeing how he acted in KH1, I can't blame them. But then I remind myself her Heart was in his vessel and I burst laughing even before CoM failed to convince me Sora even likes Kairi.

So now you've got a huge romantic mess to resolve as Sora attempts to switch his romance from one friend to the other

The true irony is that the ones most shoving the romance thing are Donald and Goofy in KH2. That's... not saying a lot in favor of the couple.

 

[XIII Heartless]

No. There are no homosexual relationships in the game. The male characters that are friends with one another share strong bonds, and you could even say they love one another in a brotherly way. But no, they're not actually in love with each other.

 

[Evello]

I'd like to restate that I don't think Sora is truly romantically involved with anyone in the series (or will be in the forseeable future). The game specifically avoids ever calling Kairi and Sora a couple. They're just very close friends. The only reason I even brought up SoKai was because I think that even if Sora did suddenly become all gushy and romantic, it probably wouldn't be with Riku.

So far the only meteor showers cited in the series happened when the walls between the worlds broke, making it likely to have been -that- Meteor Shower.
Also, Namine's reaction in that made-up Memory adds up far too nicely - she's scared of the Meteor Shower that brought Kairi to the Islands.
Then there's the element where both Repliku and Sora had the same Memory. So either Namine made a whole new Memory for the both of them, making Kairi not relevant, or she used one where the both of them were already there, making it likelier that she replaced Sora and Riku for Repliku and Sora, not Kairi.

Like I said, Xehanort's situation heavily implies that there are other meteor showers. And Namine wouldn't have to make a new memory for Riku either. Perhaps SRK were there originally, and she just wrote out Sora or Riku, depending on who's memory it was.

Xion received her Kairi face during CoM. In fact, the day she received her face, going by the timeline in the Ultimania, is before Sora fought Vexen. It was then in CoM that Sora completely forgot Kairi, and it turned from being "Sora, Riku, Kairi and Namine" to just SRN, no K.
So no. Xion was absorbing Sora and Roxas's powers and Memories already there. It's just that Sora wouldn't have known since his Memories were already lost to him.

Oh yes, now I remember. Thank you.

Did you even see that scene? He was mourning not being able to thank her, and then talked about knowing it won't be so easy. Riku then reassures him that once they defeated Xemnas and set things right, he could go back and see her.
One of my favorite FM+ scenes.

Yes, he essentially said "oh shoot I forgot." Riku told him it'd be okay, and then they went back to work, with Sora hoping he'd be able to fix his mistake later. With Kairi he had no chance of getting off his little beach before the DtL appeared. So any promise of being with Kairi was just not going to realistically ever happen. Anyway, as he told Riku, the realm of light was safe because of their sacrifice, so I'm guessing Sora figured breaking his promise was necessary to save the world (and by extension Kairi). When he was able to return home, he jumped to his feet and rushed through the door, and then he got his mushy giggly reunion with Kairi.

The true irony is that the ones most shoving the romance thing are Donald and Goofy in KH2. That's... not saying a lot in favor of the couple.

I'm really tempted to put "Donald and Goofy ship SoKai" in my sig.

On a more serious note, though, they do hang out with Sora the most during KH1-KH2, so it figures that they would know him best...

 

[Smile]

With Kairi he had no chance of getting off his little beach before the DtL appeared

He didn't seem all that bothered by it either, is my point.

When he was able to return home, he jumped to his feet and rushed through the door, and then he got his mushy giggly reunion with Kairi

Which, in light of both the FM+ promise as well as Namine flashing over Kairi, gets a slightly different meaning

So yeah. SoKai overall is ridiculously out-shined by other relationships. So it's not a good example.
*licks Re:Coded*

I'm really tempted to put "Donald and Goofy ship SoKai" in my sig.

Feel free to do so, it's basically the canon in KH2. Sora and Kairi can't even reunite like good childhood friends without those two making it into something it's most likely not.

On a more serious note, though, they do hang out with Sora the most during KH1-KH2, so it figures that they would know him best...

I'd go with that if it wasn't in KH2. The characterizations overall were all over the place.
But we're straying into a SoKai vs. SoNami debate which is kind of off topic since Sora's gay for Riku anyway 8D