Gunman Kills 4 in Isla Vista, Was Influenced by 'Men's Rights Movement'

[Luap]

Not in the mood to talk much but this is all i'm going to say there are a myriad of reasons why people hate feminism in this day and age, what those reasons are can range from assine to completely legitimate assumptions. Yes there was a time when feminism was needed but that was a long time ago unless you live in a 3rd world country like india or somewhere in the middle east or somewhere in africa where rape culture is ACTUALLY prevalent I see no point in feminism especially if you live in a 1st world country like America where if you play your cards right you can have your cake and eat it too.

I don't think you go out in public much. Or if you do, you're not paying much attention. Rape culture is prevalent pretty much everywhere. Of course feminism is different in other cultures though, just like democrats and republicans and whatever political movements or parties you can think of are, because different areas and cultures of the world have to focus on different things. Less developed cultures need to focus on not using rape as part of psychological warfare. Developed countries need to work on victim blaming and slut shaming and double standards and unrealistic body expectations among many other things.

I don't understand why we've suddenly started condemning entire groups of people based off the actions of individual members. I suppose we should start labeling all Muslims as terrorists or all Christians are serial killers. All feminists must be fat hams as well, too.

Radical Muslims/Christians don't feel rejected by Muslims and Christians. Rapists (who are mostly male) don't feel rejected by other men. Radical feminists don't feel rejected by feminists. Why? Because instead of standing up against radicals, people that feel they're in the right just yell "not all ___" so that they can direct the blame of themselves. Instead of telling feminists that not all men rape, we should be telling rapists that they shouldn't rape.

 

[inasuma]

rape culture and the MRM are really secondary to this tragedy. yes elliot rodger was influenced by some bad aspects of those ideologies perhaps but it looks like he chose them based on his life experiences/propensity to gravitate toward a specific way of thinking (i.e., girls should love me, i should be considered a god, etc.).

the kid was diddlyed up, and as stooge said, his illness clearly exacerbated his already skewed perspective on male/female roles and expectations. the fact he expected them to flock to him combined with his horrible awkwardness make that clear to begin with. also i recall reading about how he had minor luck with therapy. surprise. lol

edit: words

 

[Deleted member 36435]

Radical Muslims/Christians don't feel rejected by Muslims and Christians. Rapists (who are mostly male) don't feel rejected by other men. Radical feminists don't feel rejected by feminists. Why? Because instead of standing up against radicals, people that feel they're in the right just yell "not all ___" so that they can direct the blame of themselves. Instead of telling feminists that not all men rape, we should be telling rapists that they shouldn't rape.

At any point did I imply that radicals that harm people and rapists shouldn't be punished or that we should ignore them? No, but I don't see why you would EVER blame men's rights movements as a whole or "rape culture" (diddlyinlol) for this obviously insane man's actions. I'm not saying that rapists should rape, or that these people should just be ignored but blaming entire ideologies that are [mostly] harmless is just diddlying dumb.

While I don't subscribe to men's rights movements or feminism or anything similar, I can see why people would and why people would also see a need for such things to exist. You're simply taking a horrible tragedy and using it as ammo for issues that are separate from this tragedy.

edit: oh yeah, feminism is diddlying awful because valerie solanas

 

[Ulti]

Why the hell are we even discussing rape culture? This has nothing to do with a kid who thought women would just fall in his lap because he had things.

 

[A]

I don't think you go out in public much. Or if you do, you're not paying much attention. Rape culture is prevalent pretty much everywhere. Of course feminism is different in other cultures though, just like democrats and republicans and whatever political movements or parties you can think of are, because different areas and cultures of the world have to focus on different things. Less developed cultures need to focus on not using rape as part of psychological warfare. Developed countries need to work on victim blaming and slut shaming and double standards and unrealistic body expectations among many other things.



Radical Muslims/Christians don't feel rejected by Muslims and Christians. Rapists (who are mostly male) don't feel rejected by other men. Radical feminists don't feel rejected by feminists. Why? Because instead of standing up against radicals, people that feel they're in the right just yell "not all ___" so that they can direct the blame of themselves. Instead of telling feminists that not all men rape, we should be telling rapists that they shouldn't rape.

there's honestly nothing like rape culture it's absolute horse shit and this is coming from a person who frequents nightclubs and dance festivals every other weekend, also unrealistic body expectations? that's horse shit too, most people have an average body type and another thing i am pretty sure is if a guy admitted he was rapist he would get his ass handed to him by other men right then and there depending on the situation

Why the hell are we even discussing rape culture? This has nothing to do with a kid who thought women would just fall in his lap because he had things.

i didn't think so too

 

[Magnus]

Meanwhile in counties with strict gun laws, where the majority of the population has no access to guns except for hunters, there are no mass shootings. At worst there's been mass stabbings, leaving several people injured but none dead.

 

[Nutari]

Meanwhile in counties with strict gun laws, where the majority of the population has no access to guns except for hunters, there are no mass shootings. At worst there's been mass stabbings, leaving several people injured but none dead.

But it's literally the same principle. People are still being murdered, simply by different means.

Which begs us to ask an entirely different question: why are people choosing to exert rage/aggression/loneliness etc, with murder?

 

[Deleted member 36435]

Meanwhile in counties with strict gun laws, where the majority of the population has no access to guns except for hunters, there are no mass shootings. At worst there's been mass stabbings, leaving several people injured but none dead.

Well, we made it 25 posts without this coming up. Good job everyone.

Shit happens no matter how strict gun laws and yes shit like this happens less in other countries. However, gun control laws aren't the only differences between these countries. A variety of societal factors such as diversity, poverty levels, overall population, mental illness statistics, etc contribute. Even in recent times one of the worst mass killings in the US wasn't even done with guns, the Boston Marathon bombing did so much more damage without a gun.

I'm not happy with gun control laws in the US, but I don't think they are as a big of an issue in these events as a lot of people make them out to be.

 

[Magnus]

Does it matter? It's still a valid point. Yes, bad stuff happens all the time, it's inevitable, but guns kill people more efficiently and with less effort than other weapons. Feel free to compare gun related deaths in the US to other countries. There are more shootings, especially ones with a deadly outcome, in the US than in other Western countries. It's a bit naive to think easy access to guns plays no part in that.

 

[Deleted member 36435]

Does it matter? It's still a valid point. Yes, bad stuff happens all the time, it's inevitable, but guns kill people more efficiently and with less effort than other weapons. Feel free to compare gun related deaths in the US to other countries. There are more shootings, especially ones with a deadly outcome, in the US than in other Western countries. It's a bit naive to think easy access to guns plays no part in that.

Did you even read?

Shit happens no matter how strict gun laws and yes shit like this happens less in other countries. However, gun control laws aren't the only differences between these countries. A variety of societal factors such as diversity, poverty levels, overall population, mental illness statistics, etc contribute.

 

[Reagan Rayden]

How about we focus less on creating gun laws that make life suck for people who need protection (single moms, the elderly, pretty much anyone with a house and kids, etc) and instead try to raise awareness for these kids with mental illnesses which can possibly save people and make everyone's lives better?

 

[Magnus]

Yes, Victor, I did read. If there is no easy access to guns, then it doesn't matter how many mentally ill or poor people a country has. Easy gun access is the root of the problem. It's the same principle as with birth control, except in reverse. The more easily available it is, and the better the sex ed is, the less unwanted pregnancies you'll end up having. The US has an incredibly high (unwanted) teen pregnancy rate, but lots of religious movements trying to block access to birth control in one way or another. In countries with easy access to birth control and good sex ed from an early age, the teen pregnancy rates are usually low.

 

[Deleted member 36435]

Yes, Victor, I did read. If there is no easy access to guns, then it doesn't matter how many mentally ill or poor people a country has. Easy gun access is the root of the problem. It's the same principle as with birth control, except in reverse. The more easily available it is, and the better the sex ed is, the less unwanted pregnancies you'll end up having. The US has an incredibly high (unwanted) teen pregnancy rate, but lots of religious movements trying to block access to birth control in one way or another. In countries with easy access to birth control and good sex ed from an early age, the teen pregnancy rates are usually low.

You realize that there are more than one way to kill someone right? You're making a broad sweeping claim with no evidence to back it up and equating mass murder to teen pregnancy is on it's own level of ridiculousness.

Elliot Rodger decided he wanted to kill people and his ability to access a firearm more than likely had little impact on his decision. And not to sound cold, 4 people is not a lot and he could've killed the same amount of people, if not more, with a large amount of other weapons.

 

[Ulti]

Easy gun access is the root of the problem.

Isn't mental illness the actual root? Even with strict laws, you'll still have the wrong people owning firearms. Mental health needs to be taken seriously before change can happen.

And horrible analogy. Teen pregnancy has been on the decline since at least the 50's. Awareness made that happen.

 

[Magnus]

Of course there are other ways to kill people, but none as efficient as shooting people with a gun. I also did not equate mass murder to teen pregnancy.

Mass shootings don't happen as often and as easily as they do in the US without easy access to guns. If there are no guns available, no gun related deaths will occur. The easier it is to get a gun, and the more people get one, the higher the risk of people shooting one another. That's just plain logic. If you can't see this, then there's no reason to even discuss this with you.

The root of gun related problems is and always be guns. Not everyone who is mentally ill kills people and not everyone who kills people is mentally ill. That's also something to consider. I will never understand why so many Americans are protective of their "right" to keep and bear firearms.

 

[Deleted member 36435]

amazing you've solved a large scale societal issue for a country consisting of over 300,000,000 people

and to argue that normal well-adjusted individuals commit murders on a mass scale is, again, ridiculous

all you've done is simplify issues on a complex and sensitive topic and made giant leaps to arrive at conclusions you have no evidence to support.

 

[Ulti]

The root of gun related problems is and always be guns. Not everyone who is mentally ill kills people and not everyone who kills people is mentally ill. That's also something to consider. I will never understand why so many Americans are protective of their "right" to keep and bear firearms.

Not everyone who owns a gun kills people. You are not even making sense. You cannot be telling me the ONLY factor is easy access to guns. No. The US doesn't have a gun problem because we can get a gun easily. The US will still have a problem even with the strictest of gun control BECAUSE of other factors, including mental illness.

 

[Reagan Rayden]

I mean I have a gun tucked away in my closet, but I'm not about to shoot anyone just because I can. That is insanity.

Besides mental awareness there's also the factor of bad parents who don't give a damn about and/or exacerbate a child's mental stability. Good parents don't leave guns out where their kids can get to them without their consent.

There is no end all be all answer to this problem. There are so many factors that it is unreasonable to pinpoint just one cause with or without evidence of one specific reasoning.

 

[inasuma]

More thorough background checks/stricter gun control will help prevent people from getting guns. Legally.

 

[Delsan]

And not to sound cold, 4 people is not a lot and he could've killed the same amount of people, if not more, with a large amount of other weapons.

I know the thread title says four but I'm pretty sure he actually killed 6, including himself.