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Kingdom Hearts 3 Story Discussion



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Sephiroth0812

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I dunno, Roxas had very few issues with stating when he hates someone. He's much more vengeful than Sora on a regular basis.

Would Xion knew about being under the influence? Granted we still have no idea how or why was she woth the Norts again, but even so she clearly showed remorse in what was doing (which she ultimately didn't even do). Saix happily waltzed into the villain part and did many unnecessarily cruel things and, again, he kinda didn't show any remorse for them even in his "redemption".

I agree with who said he should've said something to them in person. The way things are now, I can accept him being "Lea's weird friend" that everyone tolerates because they like Lea. But nothing really justifies him eating ice cream and frisbee-throwing with people he treated like dirt and never really apologized for it.
Well, to be frank, in the ending


Isa is completely apart from Roxas and Xion during the beach party segment.
The people he is playing frisbee with are Lea and Ventus, thus its more like a callback to BBS.
Xion is with Naminé the entire time during the ending while Roxas is first seen racing with Riku and Terra, then chatting with Aqua.

It's the Twilight Town Clock Tower scene which can be unsettling for those who think that Isa being around Roxas & Xion isn't earned yet by his actions.
 

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It's the Twilight Town Clock Tower scene which can be unsettling for those who think that Isa being around Roxas & Xion isn't earned yet by his actions.
But he's the one that brought the ice cream! So clearly buying forgiveness should work.
 

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Zettaflare

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I did like that Donald and Goofy had a bunch of moments to shine. Especially those two Being the only ones to repel Terranort. And they were the only non keyblade wielders in the group.
 

Face My Fears

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I did like that Donald and Goofy had a bunch of moments to shine. Especially those two Being the only ones to repel Terranort. And they were the only non keyblade wielders in the group.
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fantasy08

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Hello All.:wink: Wow it's been a minute since I've been on this site. Last time I was here BBS had just come out lol. I'm honestly surprised I still remembered how to log in. Anywho down to business...

So what do you guys think aboutIsa becoming friends with Roxas and Xion. I dont mind him living but he did treat them like crap in 358 2 Days so it is a bit odd seeing them eating ice cream and playing frisbee together? Would those two forgive him so easily?
For right or wrong forgiveness seems to be a theme in this series. I mean even goddamn Xehanort got to go to KH heaven with the man he murdered.

I think some people's unease with Isa sitting there with them is that, minus the Xehanort physical influence of his eyes and ears, he still looks like Saix. This is a a man that has been douchey in every game he has appeared in except this one.

However,nobodies are pretty much severely twisted versions of their human selves. Their default is a lack of a conscious.

Also he never truly had a chance because I could have sworn he had the biggest monster in the series horcrux inside him for 12 years to the point he was taking on his features. Basically he had the odds stacked against him from the get go. He tried to fight back in this game though, and yet Xehanort's reign on him is still powerful enough that he had to do it behind the scenes and with the help from others.

Also Saix wasn't sitting on that clocktower nor was he at Destiny Island. Isa was.

Therefore I'm completely fine with Isa being friends with them because he's a victim himself. They were all clearly good people in BBS and then suddenly their evil. What changed? Oh that's right their freaking hearts are gone i.e. their conscious. Look at the difference a heart does for Ienzo for example. Zexion was simply an abomination of him. That is what lacking a conscious does.

Also should I blame Terra for what Xenmas did?

Basically I'm not in favor of atonement being out of Isa's reach just because of what his nobody did.
This also goes for the others as well.

[QUOTE]I mean, maybe I missed something, but didn't wasn't said, or at the very least implied that Isa secretly assisted with the return of Roxas and Xion (but since he was one of the ones who was hand picked by Xehanort, he couldn't help carry out the action himself and had to continue fighting)? If Ienzo explained that to him beforehand, it makes sense that Roxas would a bit more forgiving of him. And, to be frank, his negative treatment of them never extended beyond verbal abuse and trying to keep Roxas in the Organization (which was likely an instruction based off the diologue), so I would imagine showing authentic kindness to them while admitting his own faults (which he already did in front of them when he was talking to Lea) should help them be a bit more forgiving. To be honest, I don't really see what else he could of have done. He hurt them with words because of his jealousy (which again, he admitted to), so words should've been able to remedy it. Him getting them Ice cream would've been yet another gesture of good will.

Let's not forget Riku talked crap to Xion and really got under her skin (visably pissing her off way more than any other character did, including Siax to the point where she angerly wrote about it in her journal about it), and she quickly forgave and worked with him after hearing his plight regarding Sora. She's empathetic, and capable of looking at things from other perspectives. Just watch her reaction when Isa fades away.

Roxas, for as caustic and stubborn as he can be, could've at least been willing to give Isa a chance after seeing him make up with Lea first hand, and witnessing how much the latter cared for the former. And again, there's that whole implication of Isa assisting in the background. Lea probably would have vouched for him too.

I dunno, I just felt like his redemption was really well done. It satisfied me thouroughly.[/QUOTE]

Allllll of this. Some people acting like Saix was Xehanort's twin or something.

Both Roxas and Xion were visibly saddened by his 'death', and also were there to witness his moment of humanity with his former bestfriend and their present one Lea. He is also strongly implied to have helped in their resurrections. They also smiled at him when he gave them seasalt ice cream and he them. Yea, I think he's forgiven. Riku, Ienzo, Even, Ansem The Wise, etc all got to atone,but it's out of the question for Isa. Why?

I also want to point out that Riku and Ansem were completely human when they did their evil deeds. Consciousness intact and everything. Isa was not and hadn't been for a long time.

So yea I'm firmly on the RAXI train and wouldn't have it any other way.
 
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SerDuncan

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Here's the deal. I definitely agree with many of the people here about Isa being forgiven, and I would normally be looking forward to seeing him grow with the rest of the crew. The problem is the same problem I've had with most of the game: some vague allusions that he MIGHT have been helping Vexen and Ienzo with Roxas' replica just don't have enough weight to truly be considered head canon, and his lack of any sort of development throughout the game (apart from two scenes) just doesn't do it for me. In Days, in KH2, Saix was this big bad, right-hand man to Xehanort. He had ulterior motives that were occasionally hinted at, but for the most point he was this imposing figure. His dying scene after losing to Sora gave some subtle insight to his character that really fleshed him out for me.

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Ballad of Caius

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I'd like to apologize about my Arendelle comments. Didn't mean to sound so judgemental.

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Twilight Lumiair

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Here's the deal. I definitely agree with many of the people here about Isa being forgiven, and I would normally be looking forward to seeing him grow with the rest of the crew. The problem is the same problem I've had with most of the game: some vague allusions that he MIGHT have been helping Vexen and Ienzo with Roxas' replica just don't have enough weight to truly be considered head canon, and his lack of any sort of development throughout the game (apart from two scenes) just doesn't do it for me. In Days, in KH2, Saix was this big bad, right-hand man to Xehanort. He had ulterior motives that were occasionally hinted at, but for the most point he was this imposing figure. His dying scene after losing to Sora gave some subtle insight to his character that really fleshed him out for me.

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EDIT: Whoops, forgot to hide spoilers
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While what you guys are saying are true about the interactions with other characters, it most likely happened off screen. What they should have done was include all those tid bits with the trios etc. I am pretty sure all of them had a talk but again off screen lol :(
 

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I think some people's unease with Isa sitting there with them is that, minus the Xehanort physical influence of his eyes and ears, he still looks like Saix. This is a a man that has been douchey in every game he has appeared in except this one.

However,nobodies are pretty much severely twisted versions of their human selves. Their default is a lack of a conscious.

Also he never truly had a chance because I could have sworn he had the biggest monster in the series horcrux inside him for 12 years to the point he was taking on his features. Basically he had the odds stacked against him from the get go. He tried to fight back in this game though, and yet Xehanort's reign on him is still powerful enough that he had to do it behind the scenes and with the help from others.

Also Saix wasn't sitting on that clocktower nor was he at Destiny Island. Isa was.

Therefore I'm completely fine with Isa being friends with them because he's a victim himself. They were all clearly good people in BBS and then suddenly their evil. What changed? Oh that's right their freaking hearts are gone i.e. their conscious. Look at the difference a heart does for Ienzo for example. Zexion was simply an abomination of him. That is what lacking a conscious does.

Also should I blame Terra for what Xenmas did?

Basically I'm not in favor of atonement being out of Isa's reach just because of what his nobody did.
This also goes for the others as well.

So yea I'm firmly on the RAXI train and wouldn't have it any other way.
Welcome back first of all and I'm sorry to be kinda confrontational during your comeback, but I disagree with this interpreation of Nobodies.
Roxas, Naminé and Axel were Nobodies (the latter especially isn't even an exception or an anomaly so what goes for him goes for all Nobodies) and they were good people with a conciousness. There's almost nothing separating a Nobody from his human counterpart, to the point that Lea doesn't even mind being called Axel, because Axel is who he was. Nobodies are totally capable of being held accountable for their actions. I think Ienzo's change is only due of personal growth and not because he's a person now: Vexen is a Nobody again in KH III, but he want to atone too. Again, Nobodies aren't necessarily twisted. It's a choice they make exactly as humans do.

Little is still known about Xehanort's influence and how long he was in some people, but even in this case I do not feel like Isa has excuses. Xigbar and Demyx were Norted before and after him, but they still retained their own personalities and goals, and carried out their own plans even under Xehanort's influence (and so did Isa, if he was the one contacting Vexen). So I'm sorry, but most of the shitty things Saix did are Isa's fault.
Terra is a different matter because he was indeed in a Horcrux situation: Terra was split in essentially three parts, two of which were kept on a literal leash by Xehanort. Terra's main fault is that he's dumb rather than his willingness in doing bad things.
Riku had the longest and most detailed redemption arc in the series and Ansem The Wise has been shown struck with painful remorse in every scene after KH II, and in KH III does his best to atone. As I said, the main thing I have issues with Isa's redemption is that he almost doesn't feel guilty at all.
 

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What's kinda funny about your response is that I actually agree with you on a lot of points. But I feel like... you've kind of taken two plots loosely tied together and smushed them. Does that make any sense?

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You are... way better are getting your thoughts out than me. It's like I'm reading an essay! It's awesome.
 

FudgemintGuardian

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Probably the biggest point made against this whole thing. But to try and reason it, Saix needed to rise through the ranks in order to gain Xemnas' trust so it'd be safe to ask. That's all I got.
 

Graceful Schemer

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Probably the biggest point made against this whole thing. But to try and reason it, Saix needed to rise through the ranks in order to gain Xemnas' trust so it'd be safe to ask. That's all I got.
Most likely,
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What are people thoughts on
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FudgemintGuardian

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I'm pretty sure he found out from experimenting on Subject X. Secret Report 3 is Apprentice Xehanort saying he'll use the same experiments he was doing on himself to look through her memories. The four friends are mostly likely the original selves of Marluxia, Larxene, Demyx, and Luxord.
 

Tartarus

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Hello All. Wow it's been a minute since I've been on this site. Last time I was here BBS had just come out lol. I'm honestly surprised I still remembered how to log in. Anywho down to business...



For right or wrong forgiveness seems to be a theme in this series. I mean even goddamn Xehanort got to go to KH heaven with the man he murdered.

I think some people's unease with Isa sitting there with them is that, minus the Xehanort physical influence of his eyes and ears, he still looks like Saix. This is a a man that has been douchey in every game he has appeared in except this one.

However,nobodies are pretty much severely twisted versions of their human selves. Their default is a lack of a conscious.

Also he never truly had a chance because I could have sworn he had the biggest monster in the series horcrux inside him for 12 years to the point he was taking on his features. Basically he had the odds stacked against him from the get go. He tried to fight back in this game though, and yet Xehanort's reign on him is still powerful enough that he had to do it behind the scenes and with the help from others.

Also Saix wasn't sitting on that clocktower nor was he at Destiny Island. Isa was.

Therefore I'm completely fine with Isa being friends with them because he's a victim himself. They were all clearly good people in BBS and then suddenly their evil. What changed? Oh that's right their freaking hearts are gone i.e. their conscious. Look at the difference a heart does for Ienzo for example. Zexion was simply an abomination of him. That is what lacking a conscious does.

Also should I blame Terra for what Xenmas did?

Basically I'm not in favor of atonement being out of Isa's reach just because of what his nobody did.
This also goes for the others as well.



Allllll of this. Some people acting like Saix was Xehanort's twin or something.

Both Roxas and Xion were visibly saddened by his 'death', and also were there to witness his moment of humanity with his former bestfriend and their present one Lea. He is also strongly implied to have helped in their resurrections. They also smiled at him when he gave them seasalt ice cream and he them. Yea, I think he's forgiven. Riku, Ienzo, Even, Ansem The Wise, etc all got to atone,but it's out of the question for Isa. Why?

I also want to point out that Riku and Ansem were completely human when they did their evil deeds. Consciousness intact and everything. Isa was not and hadn't been for a long time.

So yea I'm firmly on the RAXI train and wouldn't have it any other way.
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DarkosOverlord

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Twilight Lumiair

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What's kinda funny about your response is that I actually agree with you on a lot of points. But I feel like... you've kind of taken two plots loosely tied together and smushed them. Does that make any sense?

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You are... way better are getting your thoughts out than me. It's like I'm reading an essay! It's awesome.
First of all, thank you so much for the compliment! And I can understand your discomfort, since a lot of what goes on with Isa has always been subtle. If you don't feel the writing tied his motivations together satisfactorally, there's really not much I can say or do other give you my perspective.

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DarkosOverlord said:
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DarkosOverlord said:
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So it basically felt forced to you then? I mean.. I don't really think the game was trying to dodge around all the things Isa did, so much as it was humanizing him and giving his story some rich subtext. Not everything is blatantly laid out with him, and as someone who loves to analyze and peel back the layers of a character's psychology and their arc (so like their motivations, intensions, masked emotions, etc.) I don't mind having certain events happening off screen as long as we can conclude that it did happen. It's a writing approach that typically leads to this exact kind of divisiveness amongst the people taking in the story, and in the end it's subjective, and I really can't say much past my own opinion on the execution of it all. So for those who don't personally like how things were presented, I hope it doesn't bog down the future stories involving this character for you to much. Hopefully this will all be neatly clarified in a future interview, but knowing Nomura, I won't get my hopes up, lol.


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Also, yes. All of this.
 
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