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Re-viewing KHII



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Veritas7340

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When I was a kid and KHII came out, I thought it was the best KH game for a good while. I thought everything was better: the plot and gameplay seemed more epic.

Now that I'm older, I like KHI a lot more than KHII.

The plot is stronger in KHI. Every world has the unique charm that interweaves the Disney world into the Heartless threat instead of just going "Hey, it's Disney". Also for me, it has the most epic utilization of the Keyblade: sealing the keyholes of worlds to safeguard them against darkness.

The gameplay is better in KHI. The Heartless put up a considerably greater challenge in KHI. If you ever got in a jam in KHII, you could just fall back on Drive forms or Limits or Leaf Bracer Cures, but in KHI, you had to stay on your toes sometimes. In addition, magic was actually fun and useful in KHI

Am I alone in this weirdness of loving KHII more than over time loving KHI more?

Also, I still love KHII, this is all just relative to KHI
 

Ruran

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Not really, that happened to a lot of people, myself included. KH2 was just shiny, new, and provided a lot of instant gratification, but once you really examine it, you find that it's not all that good. Not only compared to KH1, but as a whole it's pretty lacking. The graphics are better, I think the camera was improved too, and probably had other little tweaks here and there, but for the most part it was a down grade.
 

Solo

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The observation that KH1 is "superior" in many aspects compared to KH2 is a sentiment that is shared by many of the forum members gathered here.

Most of the complaints came from the fact that Disney worlds in KH2 tend to not contribute at all to the overall plot of the game (and we had to visit them more than once at that). There was also the problem that KH2's battle system can be seen as a dumbed-down version of that of KH1 in that you can easily plow the battlefield flat only by mashing X, as well as via the use of some flashy, occasionally gamebreaking, combo finishes (some of which could take an entire HP bar!) and reaction commands. The gummi ship part also caused a divide; some thought that it was an exciting step-up from the mechanics in KH1, while some others thought that it was completely unnecessary. That's just naming a few of the several "shortcomings" of KH2 compared to KH1, but the biggest problem of all that I'm sure most of us here will agree with was the sub-par writing quality, which I'd rather not go too deep into right now.

That has got to be the longest paragraph that I have ever typed in this website.

So yeah, you're not alone. I wouldn't say that KH2 was a bad game, because it wasn't, but it wasn't all too good either and could certainly have been better.
 

Zettaflare

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Yeah once you take of the nostalgia goggles, you see how flawed KH2 is. The story and characters was such a huge downgrade from KH1 that it's actually baffling.


To this day, I'm surprised that they got it right in the first game, but not for the second numbered title.
 

Veritas7340

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What makes it really weird, at least for me, is the game ratings.

KH is rated E

KH II is rated E10+

Usually, you think you would like the older-age-rated game when you're older, but here it's the opposite xD

Also,just wondering, how did KH get that E rating with certain aspects like Riku being possessed by Ansem and Sora sacrificing himself via stabbing to save Kairi?
 

Solo

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And yet, here we are, excited over the eventual release of KH2FM. That's not only because it had never been officially released worldwide, but also because it, especially its Critical Mode, is a huge step-up. Among other additions, Heartless and bosses requiring specific strategy to kill made their return in this expanded title and skills had been readjusted, making the game more challenging than the vanilla version of KH2.
 

Ruran

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The ESRB functions by having a group of people review a game and unanimously decide on what rating to give it. KH2 is actually one of the more censored games in the series and it totally depends on the particular group of people. Either way, by comparison KH1 was a bit more tame than 2.
 

Draxem

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KH2FM is a serious step up from vanilla KH2, that's why I'm so fond of it. I'm well aware they've been cleaning the mess the plot left behind for the last few years, but the additional cutscenes and bosses in FM really add to the game substantially.

I always feel that although Kingdom Hearts 1 was pretty epic, it simply serves as a set up for the universe that we have all grown to love (and hate), if anything Dream Drop Distance's time travel plot has thrown me off a little bit, everything leading to that moment had me fully engaged.
 

limit

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You're not alone. What bothered me most about this game is that it was the epitome of utilizing Disney as pure filler in this series. KHI handled it pretty much perfectly imo. You also have a great point with the Keyblade's use. Still, I show love to every game in the series, hehe. Not holding the plot to higher standards, KHII did make for a really enjoyable game.

As for gameplay, I would've liked KHII much better if Sora wasn't so darn self-sufficient. Of course, I've seen plenty of people talk about how Final Mix balanced EVERYTHING out, making it the "best game in the series." I did play FM once a pretty long time ago, but I can't remember how much this holds.
 
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Blackdrazon

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The gummi ship part also caused a divide; some thought that it was an exciting step-up from the mechanics in KH1, while some others thought that it was completely unnecessary.

Now, now, it can be an exciting step-up in mechanics and be pointless!
 

kuraudoVII

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As already mentioned, the game was considered a critical success in the eyes of the fans due to the shininess and spectacle of the gameplay as well as the worlds and characters brought into the game. However, as people played the game more, they began to notice that there were legitimate problems with the game such as it being way too easy overall, the writing and overall narrative simply not being up to snuff compared to previous games, a lack of integration of all the franchises represented in the series and needless backtracking that echoes the oh so lovely Triforce shards quest in The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker.

What makes it really weird, at least for me, is the game ratings.

KH is rated E

KH II is rated E10+

Usually, you think you would like the older-age-rated game when you're older, but here it's the opposite xD

Also,just wondering, how did KH get that E rating with certain aspects like Riku being possessed by Ansem and Sora sacrificing himself via stabbing to save Kairi?

In all fairness, Kingdom Hearts I was released in 2002, back when the E10 rating didn't exist. Hell, The E rating was still relatively new at the time - my copy of Super Mario 64 has the K-A rating (Kids to Adults). Also, ironically enough, games and other media were allowed to get away with certain things in that era since both games and Moral Guardians weren't as prominent then as they are now. As a result, while II is darker and has a slightly higher rating, it really isn't all that much darker than I that was nearly as dark (and can be considered even darker than before considering certain revelations in Birth by Sleep and 3D).

To use a similar example echoing Kingdom Hearts II to I using Zelda games: Twilight Princess is rated T, Majora's Mask is rated E. Majora's Mask was released at a time when Nintendo games having T ratings simply didn't happen and in an era (the nineties) that I would argue is edgier than the overtly politically correct climate of today. As a result, while it is easily as dark as Twilight Princess if not darker, it was still given an E rating due to the times. Twilight Princess was given a T rating partially due to the times and the western fans (myself admittedly included) that wanted a more mature looking Zelda title (not to take anything away from Wind Waker, mind you). Kingdom Hearts II and I are similar in that regard since the fans wanted what they saw as a more mature game in a series that grows up alongside them.

Edit: ninja'd by a substantial margin
 

khspartan14

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In hindsight, KH2 is the thing I've most looked forward to ever in my life, even now. Heck, the reason I started to use the internet in the first place was for information on the game. Combine that with my mom only letting me rent it, I had serious nostalgia goggles whenever I thought about it. Honestly, after I first beat it in 2006, I don't think I played it again till 2008-09 when I bought a greatest hits edition. Now I owned KH1, and replayed it right before deciding to get KH2 again. And all the flaws started showing their ugly faces: what they did to magic, Sora being overpowered, NO XP FROM UNDERWORLD TOURNAMENTS, and awkward writing. But for me, I didn't realize at first how bad the Disney worlds were integrated. It now felt pointless, and the majority of the time it was just a rehash of the movies.

The gummi ships I feel ambivalent toward. On one hand, they're more engaging, but on the other hand, they're longer, and I've never enjoyed them anyway.

Lastly, I missed the Trinities, 99 Dalmatians, Magic Arts from White Mushrooms kind of thing from KH1. Led to more re-exploring on my part.

And I didn't like Riku's new design.
 

kuraudoVII

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And then there's this third faction that I previously knew nothing of. XD

Apparently, we all learn something new every day. :)

At any rate, I always found the Gummi ship levels to be pointless filler that can frustrate you if you don't customize your ship in the first game. II certainly improved most aspects of the Gummi ship levels, but they were still pointless. In fact, I'd argue that they are even MORE pointless filler since they were so easy yet took up about 3-5 minutes of your time that you feel has already been wasted by slogging through the Longest Prologue Ever.

So yeah, chalk me up part of the third faction. :)
 

Elysium

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I think KH2 being so bad was just strange. I mean, it was a very pretty game, but I don't know how they went so wrong when both KH and CoM were so good (imo). It really killed my fan status for a while, and I just kind of simmered through Days and BbS. I didn't start really enjoying the series again until Coded and 3D. Maybe KH2 was important in that they learned a lesson, considering how the games since have improved on its flaws in most ways.

I believe the only thing I liked about KH2 better than KH1 was the Gummi Ship, but I would still rather they had cut it out entirely. Oh, and the Pooh games were more fun and less annoying (although the storyline was, like most of the returning worlds, just a dumbed-down rehash of what happened before).
 

Blackdrazon

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Lastly, I missed the Trinities, 99 Dalmatians, Magic Arts from White Mushrooms kind of thing from KH1. Led to more re-exploring on my part.

This is probably a strange thing to pick up on, but I wanted to say that I also missed the Trinities at first. Their absence really signifies the last of detail-work and exploration involved in all the games after KH1, which I've dearly missed. But while it still serves as a good example of that problem, I'm glad they're gone, at least as they are. That's because Trinities, even if the devs didn't intend it, only accomplish one thing: to discourage you from using any party members other than Donald and Goofy. And since so few Guests really stack up to Donald and Goofy, they don't need the extra discouragement. XD

If the games included some other form of "hidden Mickeys" that you could unlock as you gained powers, that would be just fine.
 

Ruran

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KH2 was a victim of time constraints and a product of its time, shonon action series being very popular then. It was planned to have lot of content and originally was intended two take up two disks, but a lot of stuff had to be dropped. That's why KH2FM has so many extra goodies, and to this day, is he beefiest FM title.

Basically, KH2 was just over ambitious.
 

Sephiroth0812

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KH2 was a victim of time constraints and a product of its time, shonon action series being very popular then. It was planned to have lot of content and originally was intended two take up two disks, but a lot of stuff had to be dropped. That's why KH2FM has so many extra goodies, and to this day, is he beefiest FM title.

Basically, KH2 was just over ambitious.

That's one of the main reasons why I am looking forward to Kh HD 2.5.

The FM of KH 2 has so many additional stuff, both gameplay and story-wise, that it is said to be a totally different experience compared to vanilla KH 2.
Not to mention I remember that Nomura said somewhere that KH 2 FM was nearer to his initial imagination as to how KH 2 should have been than the vanilla version that was originally put out.
 

Jotari

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I heard Axel was originally going to die in the prologue of KHII and knowing that large portions of the story make more sense. He is kind of shoe horned in there accomplishing nothing more than getting Kairi off Destiny Islands (and he doesn't even do that well considering she gets away from him). I feel as if quite a lot of potential was missed there. If he wanted to see Roxas again he should have personally appeared to Sora more and actively did something.

The real problem with KHII story is that it boils down into three very long cutscenes with bosses. You have the extended opening, the battle at Hollow Basitan and the ending. I really enjoy those sections of the games but outside of that nothing is important in the slightest. Even the events with Xaldin don't feel significant at all.
 

LightUpTheSky452

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I heard Axel was originally going to die in the prologue of KHII and knowing that large portions of the story make more sense. He is kind of shoe horned in there accomplishing nothing more than getting Kairi off Destiny Islands (and he doesn't even do that well considering she gets away from him). I feel as if quite a lot of potential was missed there. If he wanted to see Roxas again he should have personally appeared to Sora more and actively did something.

The real problem with KHII story is that it boils down into three very long cutscenes with bosses. You have the extended opening, the battle at Hollow Basitan and the ending. I really enjoy those sections of the games but outside of that nothing is important in the slightest. Even the events with Xaldin don't feel significant at all.

Saïx was also dumb in not using his possession of Kairi to make Sora do whatever he wanted him to... Which he would have, seeing as how she means "more than anything" to him, and the Organization members that were in Castle Oblivion had already gone down this trail with Naminé. The only difference this time was that Kairi was actually Sora's love interest, and they wouldn't have needed memory manipulation to sway him.

Honestly, that plot point could have been done so much better. I wish it had been like what I've seen in some amvs, where Saïx shows Kairi to Sora for a moment, but then closes the Corridor a second after it (but the emotional impact's still much bigger), but I digress.

Anyway, on topic: for a very long time KHII was my favorite game in the series. Anticipating it for so long probably had something to do with it. But IDK. Though now I don't think it was executed well at all (and I think that's what the main problem in that game boils down to: execution), I did like the story.

I liked some of the gray areas that were implemented, where you did somewhat sympathize with the Organization for just wanting hearts. And that this game is really when they started to cement the idea that Darkness isn't bad.

I also really love the inclusion of the Nobodies, and that's actually one of my favorite things (ever) to date. I just think they're a cool species, and that it was a natural progression from the Heartless. And though most people didn't like the "Ansem" really being "Xehanort" thing, I actually kind of did. It was a simple plot twist, that--for the most part--made sense and could've been possible (something that KH really isn't known for doing anymore).

I did like the gameplay, but thought it made it way too easy.

Uhh... I used to like the character designs (even better than the first one's), but I don't anymore.

And though they weren't implemented well, I did enjoy seeing worlds like Pirates (since I was obsessed with it at the time) in the game.

And... I actually liked Sora in the game (dodges bullets). Let me clarify that: I liked the nice part of Sora in the game--who was more used to everything now and just sort of went with it--who tried to help everyone as best he could; I also liked that he'd overcome a bit of his bratty-ness from the first game, and was more of a character this time around (everyone else was, too, actually, and KH really started to have its own story in this game, as opposed to the first one where it was mostly the Disney plots).

I still do think that KHII Sora is the weakest writing wise, though. Because while those aspects of him were great... how dumb he was in the game, and how he was almost mean at certain points, certainly was not.

Anyway, I don't know where I'm going with this anymore. I used to love KHII, and I still do, but now the first game is definitely my favorite again, and I can easily see the flaws present in II. I do think that II wrapped up everything up rather nicely, though. (I also enjoyed seeing certain characters again, seeing characters unite, and getting people like Roxas introduced to the series. And I liked the idea that Roxas and Naminé would have to return to Sora and Kairi for them to be whole. It was a sacrifice and it was bittersweet... Something the series is sort of lacking now, since everyone always comes back to life. And at the time, I even did enjoy AtW's epic speech towards Xemnas and that kind of thing. Axel's death, Kairi getting stronger, and Riku starting to accept himself also really spoke to me. And... I was a sucker for the "romances" in SoKai and RokuNami that I'd perceived at the time.)

And for the most part... that game was still pretty sane and understandable (unlike the ones we have now). And I do think it did some things right, in having some ambiguity to it, but remaining light and upbeat at the same time. I mean, it could have been better, but I am glad that that's pretty much the one game in the series that isn't tragic. KHII was definitely the most comedic game of the series, though. That's for sure....

But, yeah. I just think KHII was a staple of its time and targeted age group. Because at the time, I thought it was the coolest thing ever, and was almost glad that it was somewhat edgier and more Square-esque (and I even started to think that maybe they should take the Disney out around that time... blasphemy, I know). And I remember thinking that KHII was the coolest/darkest, and most interesting story that Disney was ever attached to. But I was a silly middle schooler, who loved KH to death and was only caring about "older" things at the time. What did I know?

Edit: And now that I think about it, I think the number of times I've played the game (because this is the KH game I've played the most) has made me like it less. I just got really tired of it after I finally got one-hundred percent. But seeing as how I'd played more than a hundred hours to do so, I guess that makes sense.
 
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