Final Fantasy VII Remake Megathread - Intergrade, Rebirth, Reunion and more

[VoidGear.]

That....sort of does sound like a scene that should maybe be cut as I apparently cut it from my memory already lol? I don't really want implied sexual assault at all as it is, but then in a series as straight as this I am not into rapey gay dudes being like some of the only representation thanks lol.

Somehow I think that topic irks me more than it would've when I was a kid (if I had seen / understood it back then). I just really don't want people to run around saying "loool there it is. There's your gay stuff in the game are you happy now?"
I mean it's all made to be funny and Cloud enters the scene semi-willingly, and it isn't implied that he couldn't leave, but it's definitely at least mental abuse and I'm not sure how much I want that.

Tifa is kind of a similar problem for me tbh. I'm okay with her being all sexy and that, even slightly huge boobs. It comes with her job, it makes sense to make her that way and still allows her to have a personality. But seeing that there's also sexist comments about her and / or Aerith now...

 

[Sora2016]

Somehow I think that topic irks me more than it would've when I was a kid (if I had seen / understood it back then). I just really don't want people to run around saying "loool there it is. There's your gay stuff in the game are you happy now?"
I mean it's all made to be funny and Cloud enters the scene semi-willingly, and it isn't implied that he couldn't leave, but it's definitely at least mental abuse and I'm not sure how much I want that.

Tifa is kind of a similar problem for me tbh. I'm okay with her being all sexy and that, even slightly huge boobs. It comes with her job, it makes sense to make her that way and still allows her to have a personality. But seeing that there's also sexist comments about her and / or Aerith now...

Yeah that's how I feel as well, generally. I guess I don't like when things display situations like that as funny as it is, but I think in general Japanese products have penchant for making inappropriate gay men, who sort of cross lines and touch other dudes without permission. And its supposed to be funny, and sometimes those characters are still displayed as likable in other aspects, but as a gay man well yeah. I ain't a fan of that one bit.
I imagine some dudebros would try to claim that is our representation lol, so that would make it all the worse.

I sort of have a problem still with women clearly being made just for men to ogle in fiction. Which Tifa clearly falls under. But on that note you are right, she dresses somewhat normally for her job as a bartender at least...whether she should change when going out with a bunch of rebels to fight monsters and stuff lol. Well thats a different discussion I suppose. But yeah, dudes feeling entitled to her giant breasts is kind of the core of the problem with making characters like that in the first place...

And its silly cuz yeah, they already downsized them in basically everything she has been in since and will almost certainly continue to do so. The worst since then was Dissidia where they had jiggle physics...which I am worried about for this and NT lol. But I guess it may very well happen...ideally not ridiculous water balloon-esque physics.

 

[Magnus]

Wall Market is supposed to be a shady place, but I definitely think some things have to be cut or re-written. The scene I was referring to has Cloud say "it hurts" or something to that effect too, if I'm not mistaken. They don't necessarily have to cut the entire scene, but just re-write it. Have the player decide whether to keep flirting with these guys or not, and just make it a light hearted homoerotic moment similar to Yuna giving LeBlanc a massage. That'd still be in line with what happens at the Wall Market and not portray gay men as rapists.

 

[Sora2016]

Wall Market is supposed to be a shady place, but I definitely think some things have to be cut or re-written. The scene I was referring to has Cloud say "it hurts" or something to that effect too, if I'm not mistaken. They don't necessarily have to cut the entire scene, but just re-write it. Have the player decide whether to keep flirting with these guys or not, and just make it a light hearted homoerotic moment similar to Yuna giving LeBlanc a massage. That'd still be in line with what happens at the Wall Market and not portray gay men as rapists.

Yeah that sounds like a better compromise, I agree. Especially more lighthearted at least. Though yeah I guess if the idea of choosing to flirt leads it to be more consensual I am also fine with that. I get that its a shady place, that I do remember ha.

 

[Chaser]

They might cut that scene, but there are people who don't want things to be cut because of how dated or awkward it is, like when Cloud is being controlled by Sephiroth and physically abuses Aerith. Whether that should be included or cut was a discussion online a few weeks back.

 

[Max]

There's the part of me that says I would love to see this remake uncut, but there's also the part of me that knows some things will need to be reworked lest they just translate as awkward PS1ness

 

[Sephiroth0812]

Wall Market is supposed to be a shady place, but I definitely think some things have to be cut or re-written. The scene I was referring to has Cloud say "it hurts" or something to that effect too, if I'm not mistaken. They don't necessarily have to cut the entire scene, but just re-write it. Have the player decide whether to keep flirting with these guys or not, and just make it a light hearted homoerotic moment similar to Yuna giving LeBlanc a massage. That'd still be in line with what happens at the Wall Market and not portray gay men as rapists.

I remember that scene being way overblown and deliberately over the top in the original but often not immediately recognized as something "problematic" as audiences in this era say due to the graphical limitations and the dialogue not being outright indicating a sort of abuse as if I recall correctly one of the other guys asked Cloud beforehand if he really wants to participate in this (or was it the Honey Bee-girl beforehand?)
There were like 5 or 6 massive muscular men who all literally went into that water basin together with Cloud (there wasn't much room to move anymore) with the scenery eventually being blacked out for a while and no sound except the water (that was also where Cloud's "it hurts" comment came in) and when I was younger I certainly didn't get the implications at first.
I don't remember clearly if he had also one of those black-out/fuzzy memory episodes due to the Jenova cells in that scene and thus was somewhat incapacitated.

Considering the current climate though and how audiences react nowadays I certainly agree though that this scene if still included will have to be tweaked and toned down to somewhat more positive and less over-the-top levels, also because the graphics are much more realistic now.
Completely cutting it might be somewhat too harsh however and also carry the unfortunate implications of trying to censor "non-hetero" content for fear of the moral guardians/the purity police.

 

[dlppictures]

Yeah, Wall Market (and especially the Honey Bee Inn) is a strange place in FFVII. Sure the game is full of silly moments (Elena cartwheeling down the slope in Icicle Inn or the Slapping contest between Tifa and Scarlet), but the Cross Dressing sequence really stands out; partly because it is never mentioned or referenced again, other than talking to the manager in front of the Honey Bee Inn. Also Don Corneo, a man who sees women as slaves to satiate his own needs (and later on just straight up kidnaps them for his pleasure).

And speaking of the Honey Bee Inn. We are litteraly seeing a brothel in a "kids game". Cloud can get in the bathtub with a bunch of muscular guys as already mentioned, sure. But he also peeps through keyholes to other visitors' playtime. Iirc, it's even implied that President Shinra is one of the visitors cosplaying with a girl!

And if you thought all that was wierd, and how on earth could Square let all this stuff into the game; whoo boy, the alpha version (I guess) of the Honey Bee Inn was even more direct than the finished game. The Honey Bee girls would talk with "Limit Break"-text (flashy rainbow colours) implying seductive speak. Both the Shinra Manager (Guy in red in early game) and Palmer would have a discussion over the use of the Honey Bee Inn, and be surprised they both have the same favourite girl. When peeping through a keyhole a black screen with the text "we apologize, but the following contains materiel unsuitable for the general public" appears. And to top it all of, if you would not have recieved either the Bikini Briefs or the Lingerie; you would be able to talk to a man who practically admits to be stalking Tifa (why he's there now, as she's supposed to be "working" there), and stole 'her' underwear from the clothesline outside the 7th Heaven. The Mystery Panties: Panties with a childish design on them. Childish from the 7th Heaven? Yuck!!
Good thing some of the higher ups told Toriyama (event-planner for the Honey Bee Inn) that stuff was way too across the line.

All that said, Wall Market is one of the most memorable moments in the game, because it's so out of the left field, and I would be very sad to see it cut if that were to happen. (I think SE confirmed that it will be in the remake.) And Mukki (Leader of the muscular men) is really one of the nicer npc's in the game the few times you can meet him to talk with him, so I hope he gets expanded on a bit in the remake. Yeah, I said it, give us some more of Mukki!



If anyone is interested in the Alpha version of the Honey Bee Inn, then I can recommend Shademp's (Thelifestream.net) Unused Text series part 4. It does have some cool unused areas designs; some of the dialogue scenes were just too much and had to be cut.
https://thelifestream.net/ffvii-the-original/final-fantasy-vii-the-unused-text-series/part-4/

 

[Magnus]

I'm not suggesting they should "censor" or tone down the overall shadiness of Wall Market. It's totally fine to show people with questionable morals, especially when they're all portrayed in a bad light. None of the behaviour is glorified. It's also perfectly fine to show Cloud having a bath with a bunch of gay bodybuilders. It's okay to make it homoerotic and even flirty, or play with the audience's expectation by having Cloud and Mukki "moan" and express how good it feels off screen, only to then show they're just scrubbing each other's backs or something. But the implied rape is just too much.

 

[Dreaded_Desire62]

That....sort of does sound like a scene that should maybe be cut as I apparently cut it from my memory already lol? I don't really want implied sexual assault at all as it is, but then in a series as straight as this I am not into rapey gay dudes being like some of the only representation thanks lol.

But yeah I guess I am being hopeful Tifa's breasts will be the size of Advent Children, which was at least humanly possible size lol. Her outfit will clearly still be the more revealing one but yeah.

Is this the same guy that thought Cloud was a girl because he was wearing a dress or something?

 

[Magnus]

Is this the same guy that thought Cloud was a girl because he was wearing a dress or something?

[video=youtube;tWVdv4Qalcg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWVdv4Qalcg[/video]

 

[Recon]

Anyone hoping for a trailer at E3?

 

[Dreaded_Desire62]

[video=youtube;tWVdv4Qalcg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWVdv4Qalcg[/video]

That was a bit over the top! What was with the panties? Only in T rated games could this be gotten away with, I better shut up!

Anyone hoping for a trailer at E3?

Me!

 

[Pokie]

Anyone hoping for a trailer at E3?

Yes !!! But at the same time, I'm not holding any breaths. This is Square-Enix we're talking about here.

 

[Alpha Baymax]

Anyone hoping for a trailer at E3?

Honestly, they have to. All the trailers shown for the remake thus far are the game that's been developed by CyberConnect2. Now that they've been fired and development is entirely internal, they have to give a more genuine representation of the game.

 

[Ballad of Caius]

If the game's launching next year, it would make sense for them to start going guns blazing henceforth. But if they plan on releasing the game on late 2019, then I can see them just providing us with a small teaser trailer with the release date.

 

[Dreaded_Desire62]

If the game's launching next year, it would make sense for them to start going guns blazing henceforth. But if they plan on releasing the game on late 2019, then I can see them just providing us with a small teaser trailer with the release date.

All or nothing! I am wondering if I should get the original PS1 FFVII or just the remake. It would be nice to do a compare and contrast between the two.

 

[Zul]

All or nothing! I am wondering if I should get the original PS1 FFVII or just the remake. It would be nice to do a compare and contrast between the two.

The steam version can be acquired on sale sometimes for only $5. Keep in mind though that I have no idea how well that specific version runs given Square's reputation with PC ports.

 

[Magnus]

All or nothing! I am wondering if I should get the original PS1 FFVII or just the remake. It would be nice to do a compare and contrast between the two.

You've never played the game before?

Honestly, play the original first. The Steam version is good. It was also ported to PS4, but that version has a music bug (BGM restarts after every battle as opposed to picking up where it left off) and the cheat mode stuff that makes you totally OP is far too easy to activate by mistake too.

The original PS1 version is fine if you're playing on a PSP or Vita though.

It'll easily be at least 5 years before the final episode of the FFVII remake drops. Probably more. I fully expect this game to be a cross-gen title.

 

[Max]

All or nothing! I am wondering if I should get the original PS1 FFVII or just the remake. It would be nice to do a compare and contrast between the two.

Definitely go ahead and play the original first. Not only is it a classic, but it still holds up so well today. It's really only hurting in the graphics department, which isn't a big deal to me at all. I'm also just used to the graphics since I grew up with them, but I digress; the gameplay is still really solid, the world is huge with a lot to explore and discover, and I'm sure you'll only appreciate the remake that much more with the original under your belt.