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(SPOILERS) Union X: Breath of Darkness



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Xblade13

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This reminds me of the scene early on in KH2 when Yen Did is explaining to SDG about why the Heartless weren't wiped out at the end of KH1. That darkness lives in every heart and do long as there's even a tiny bit of darkness somewhere the Heartless won't go away.

Then Goofy brings up the point that maybe if every heart was "filled with light", the Heartless could be eradicated once and for all. Then that concept is never brought back again.
 

Ballad of Caius

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I suspect that whatever plan Xehanort had in store with Kairi is something that will be used in the near future by the MoM.
With this update I’m starting to think the black box is some sort of super weapon. Like an atomic bomb of light. Luxu was tasked with guarding it for centuries and to observe the battles of the keyblade war. The box is said to contain “hope”. And now the MoM says his plan would take several lifetimes to prepare, most likely meaning that something needed time to generate or grow. What if the box has been slowly seeping light from kingdom hearts or the realm during each battle between wielders? Or what if the dandelions are in the box and have been generating more lux that the box has been harnessing for this exact purpose? The Master told Luxu he can’t ever open it. Probably because opening it would trigger the explosion of light meant to wipe out the darkness once and for all.
Possibly. I think I suggested months or a year ago that, perhaps, the Black Box is meant to store Kingdom Hearts every time it's summoned. If one Kingdom Hearts is powerful, imagine a box full of them.
 

zander1995

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I may be misunderstanding it, but the way darkness described the machine, it seemed like the time travel itself was more of an accidental feature because the machine was only currently capable of transporting hearts, not bodies. A fully functional machine can be assumed to be able to transport both a heart and a body, which would remove the time travel feature entirely.

I'm also thinking the whole Ven Murder thing is just something similar to what happened in BBS when Maleficent used darkness to control Terra. Ven was possessed, but it was darkness doing everything, so Ven had no control over anything that happened and isn't actually responsible for Strelitzia's death even if he was used to kill her. Whether Ven was used to kill her or not, he was more of a weapon than a participant.

Also re: Dark Chirithy
Pretty sure it implies that everyone with a guilt bracelet has a dark chirithy because the bracelets were harvesting the power of darkness. Elrena's Chirithy being a Dark Chirithy working with darkness could explain how Strelitzia's death was set up.
 

Cumguardian69

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The machine only has a singular function which varies depending the state of its completion. The completed version is meant to be used to travel to other worlds, but an incomplete version can achieve time travel.
Why would an incomplete version be capable of time travel but the complete version NOT be able to do so? Surely a "defect" or "unintended consequence" would be HELD OVER from previous iterations, not discarded in favor of a lesser function?

After all, traveling to other worlds is something any generic Keyblader can do.
 

Sign

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Why would an incomplete version be capable of time travel but the complete version NOT be able to do so? Surely a "defect" or "unintended consequence" would be HELD OVER from previous iterations, not discarded in favor of a lesser function?

After all, traveling to other worlds is something any generic Keyblader can do.

Quoting zander since he explains it well:

I may be misunderstanding it, but the way darkness described the machine, it seemed like the time travel itself was more of an accidental feature because the machine was only currently capable of transporting hearts, not bodies. A fully functional machine can be assumed to be able to transport both a heart and a body, which would remove the time travel feature entirely.
 

Cumguardian69

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^ I see that and acknowledge it. However, surely the Keybladers of that time also understood of methods of time travel? MALEFICENT may not have been in the know due to being a Disney villain, but these child soldiers must have known of different methods they could have used. Forbidden, perhaps, but still aware of them.
 

Sign

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^ I see that and acknowledge it. However, surely the Keybladers of that time also understood of methods of time travel? MALEFICENT may not have been in the know due to being a Disney villain, but these child soldiers must have known of different methods they could have used. Forbidden, perhaps, but still aware of them.
I mean, you could argue it's possible that some smart eggs started to suspect something and do some digging like what Ephemer did with the Book of Prophecies, but there's been nothing to imply that time travel is just common knowledge in this era.
 
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Face My Fears

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So Ava is Darkness? Why would she help Maleficent? Also, I'm wondering if there was ever any scene between Marluxia/Roxas that may have some new subtext thanks to Ven's murder of Streletizia?

I need more clarification ugh.
 

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So Ava is Darkness? Why would she help Maleficent?

No, it's not Ava.

Also, I'm wondering if there was ever any scene between Marluxia/Roxas that may have some new subtext thanks to Ven's murder of Streletizia?

I need more clarification ugh.

Doubt it. Neither of them have access to the relevant memories, and they only shared a few lines of dialogue before Marluxia left for Castle Oblivion anyway.
 

yuyayuzu

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There is one more thing that bothers me is why Ava gives the book to Strelitzia near the tower not on the hill?
From this update, it looks like Ven's memory has been altered so that he has Strelitizia's memory because in previous update he remembers he did the same thing as Strelitizia
 

kirabook

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Aha... I knew there was something about the location in which Ven got his book. He said "near the tower", which yeah, is where Strelitzia got hers. Ava seems so consistent about where and when she hands off the books, why does Strelitzia seem so rushed?
 

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Just to add to/back up what zander1995 said:

By going back and watching the Ark to the Future scene, I think it’s clear that the only reason time travel is possible with the incomplete ark is that it tears away one’s body, which allows the heart to travel through time since that isn’t possible with a physical form. So once completed to allow for safe transportation without ripping one’s body away, it would no longer be possible to use it for time travel.
 
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Hirokey123

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Great points. I think there's more to MoM other than being a complete psychopath, but I agree he is going to the extremes for a misguided goal when a mindset of Sora or Riku is the proper way of thinking. One of my main issues recently with the overall narrative of Kingdom Hearts is that the concept of darkness not being inherently evil and is actually needed in the world has been sorta absent for a while now. This was a huge focal point in Riku's story in COM and referenced a bit in KH2 and Birth by Sleep, but never really reached fruition. So, I hope the next saga really explores that concept again in full force.

I think the MoM saw darkness at its absolute worst and most destructive at the start of Keyblade War, which scarred him to the point that he created a coat to protect himself and refused to ever take off and embark on plans to destroy the darkness altogether. Meanwhile, there is some form of darkness with more malicious intentions and its own schemes. Like the MoM, I think there's more to this entity than simply being darkness. If we think of the chess metaphor, the whole series has really been between MoM and darkness with pawns in the middle. If MoM is some misguided form of light, then it's even more fitting; light vs. darkness.

I think Sora is stuck in the middle of these forces with other scapegoats being used (Xehanort and Maleficent, etc.) which makes me think perhaps that's where Sora's chess piece lands in KH3's ending; right in between these two forces. You have the MoM and his foretellers wanting to destroy darkness altogether, while darkness may seek to blot out the light for good, and then you have Sora who understands that neither can exist without the other. Even Xehanort knew this, but his methods were just too destructive to go unchecked. Both forces can be used in destructive ways and that's what I think the foundation of the series essentially is; people misusing both darkness and light for their own personal gain or because of a misguided philosophy.

Oh god....I didn't even think about it but maybe the MoM really WAS telling the truth that he's too scared to ever take his off. But not because he's afraid of the darkness but rather in order to eradicate darkness just like Xehanort he'll have to wipe out all the hearts with darkness in them. Maybe his plan won't even allow him to choose who gets wiped out just that if there is darkness POOF they're gone. If that's the case then the MoM's actual reason for the coat can be interpreted "I'm to scared of Oblivion to take off my coat, I have to keep myself pure so I won't be eradicated when I execute my plan".

With the chess game you make a good point but I think it's more than just Sora. We have the MoM and his Foretellers remnants of a time in which darkness was the ultimate evil that needed to be crushed at any cost. Then we have Darkness who comes from a time in which the light created it then fearing what it created tried to wipe it from existence and that's sowed a belief that the darkness will never be safe so long as light persists and thus it seeks to wipe out the light. But then you have Sora's group who has been forged in light and darkness.

Sora is a light who never goes out but isn't above tapping into the darkness and doesn't hate the darkness. Kairi is a strong light as pure as they come but she's never feared the dark, be it hugging heartless Sora or jumping headlong into a corridor of darkness Kairi is light but without a fear and hate of the dark despite having every reason to. Riku is a being who exists in perfect harmony of light and darkness, bringing out the best of both and showing everyone who meets him another way than extremes.

Roxas, Xion, and Namine are beings born belonging to neither dark nor light and are aligned with neither. They are born from darkness but live in the light, they belong to the dark but they are good people who live amongst those of the light with little issue. They are an in between existence and their two other members Axel and Saix while born as people of light, have lived most of their life as in between beings which makes them able to understand both. Neither fear light nor dark they cross an intermingle with both forces. Just as the Sun sets and brings the dark and the moon is the light that lights up the dark.

Terra, Aqua, and Ventus were raised in a very light stringent home but in the end they've all learned the folly of that. It left Terra with deep self loathing issues and anger he could not control. It left Aqua with serious repression issues unable to handle it when her heart started to crack. It left Ventus feeling burnt out on the whole light and dark thing in general and just wanting to be a person of his own choice. Each of them fought against their darkness but it never solved the issue, instead it was their fight against the dark rather than an acceptance and dealing with it that lead them all to their tragedies they needed to be saved from. Now though they leap headlong into the darkest most dangerous realm we know, the realm of darkness, with a smile and almost eagerness.

Our heroes show the full spectrum of bad, good, and the middle area between the two. The follies of light and darkness as well as their strength and potential of unity. They are products of the world where light and darkness co-exist, they don't know another existence other than this one. Which is ultimately why they are a rejection of extremes, they together can create a balanced world where light and dark exist in harmony.
 

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Guys.

They wouldn't have gone to such lengths to distinguish that Ava gave the real foretellers their roles in the same area and Ven had a different experience if the second Ava wasn't an imposter. Darkness took Ava's shape, but Darkness is actually the base form of Vanitas.
 

AdrianXXII

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Guys.

They wouldn't have gone to such lengths to distinguish that Ava gave the real foretellers their roles in the same area and Ven had a different experience if the second Ava wasn't an imposter. Darkness took Ava's shape, but Darkness is actually the base form of Vanitas.
I wouldn't say Darkness is the base form of Vanitas, so much as Darkness is part of Vanitas along with Ventus' darkness, mixed together to make a new person. Or at least that's my take.
 

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I'm expecting there to be some form of twist that Darkness itself is the embodiment of all darkness in people's hearts, or becomes the darkness in everyone's hearts. Most likely thing I can see is Darkness using the new Union Leaders to summon Kingdom Hearts and using it to remake the universe, letting darkness into the hearts of people.

The old fairy tale says the World was plunged into darkness and the light in the hearts of children is what saved it, but that doesn't mean the darkness it was plunged into was the keyblade war at the end of Chi.
 

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I wouldn't say Darkness is the base form of Vanitas, so much as Darkness is part of Vanitas along with Ventus' darkness, mixed together to make a new person. Or at least that's my take.

I'd feel more inclined to this take myself, but Vanitas says rather curtly "What I am is Darkness" and mentions that "We're not the same like you think, I was just hidden inside of you for a really long time."
 

AdrianXXII

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I'd feel more inclined to this take myself, but Vanitas says rather curtly "What I am is Darkness" and mentions that "We're not the same like you think, I was just hidden inside of you for a really long time."
Good point. But that the same time he has access to Ven's memories and up until Re:Mind always referred to himself as Ven's other/brother. So I just assumed that both is true he is Darkness and he is the other part of Ven's Heart.
 

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Good point. But that the same time he has access to Ven's memories and up until Re:Mind always referred to himself as Ven's other/brother. So I just assumed that both is true he is Darkness and he is the other part of Ven's Heart.
I could see Darkness changing by taking Ven's darkness. Vanitas does something like that by taking his present appearance when Ven's heart connects with Sora's and he does say that Sora 'defines' him in the same way that Ventus does.
 

Chie

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The only thing is that Sora encounters Darkness within Ventus' heart while Vanitas is outside. So Vanitas can't 1:1 = Darkness.
 
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