Ven or Roxas?

[nxtgarnett5]

In kh2 the first time Sora talks to an organization member directly is in hollow bastion and its Xigbar with his hood up. Then he tells Sora that "he" used to give him that same exact look and i was just wondering if he was talking about Roxas or Ven. I thought it was Roxas based on the story line and how all the org. members kept talking to Sora about Roxas but i just wanted it clarified. Thanks.

 

[Samhain]

Re: Is Xigbar talking about Ven or Roxas?

since this game was made long before ven was even created then it was roxas...
not ven. but since now ven existed it will be clearly a retcon and it'll be ven.

 

[roxasisamazing]

Re: Is Xigbar talking about Ven or Roxas?

i believe that he has referring to Ven

 

[Fortissimo]

Re: Is Xigbar talking about Ven or Roxas?

I say Ven. Later on in the game Xigbar talks about other keyblade masters. Saying that Sora wasn't half the "others" were. At first I didn't know who the "Others" were, but now I'm positive that it's TAV. So Ven only makes sense.

 

[WaveK89]

Re: Is Xigbar talking about Ven or Roxas?

I figured they had some idea of it be Ven. I mean, they must of have the idea when they created the scene before fighting Xigbar since he tells Sora he isn't half of what the others were.

 

[8shortfuse]

well consiering that roxas and Ven look exactly the same and they're both connected to sora (even thought I don't know how) I'd say he meant both of them. I mean, he does say 'he' but if he was talking about Ven, ten chances are Roxas also gave him that look. but if he only meant on of them the i could be either of them really...

 

[kwkatz09]

It could be Roxas or it could be Ven. Xigbar was never clear. He didn't say "Ven used to give me the same look." or "Roxas used to give me the same look." so we don't know for sure which one it was. I used to think it was Roxas but now I'm guessing it's Ven, because it makes more sense by the things Xigbar said. Like when he was talking about the "other" keyblade wielders. But I'm only guessing. Nobody knows for sure.

 

[Sign]

I say Ven. Playing through Days, you see that Roxas doesn't have many missions with Xigbar, and when he does, the situation doesn't call for that kind of look Sora gave him.

 

[Azrael]

Roxas but Nomura will pull off another retcon and say it was Ven.

 

[rhyth]

I'm pretty sure that he meant Ven. Xigbar also claims that he wasn't half the hero the others were. He was most likely referring to TAV, since he most likely won't consider Roxas or Xion as "heroes".

 

[Ulti]

Why on earth would he make a reference to a character we did not know of at the time and a character that was still in development? It was Roxas, obvious as obvious can be.

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Why on earth would he make a reference to a character we did not know of at the time and a character that was still in development? It was Roxas, obvious as obvious can be.

​

BBS =/= Days.

The actual prequel to KH1 has at least been put into thought since 2005, or when working with KH2, due to Xigbar's own lines mentioned by other people here, as well as the Secret Ending you obtain if you defeat it in Proud Mode. Now, how far they had gotten at that point is unknown, but it didn't come out of left field. Can't trust much what Nomura says anymore, of course, but he did mention the characters' faces were in progress, and at least one was done.

Xigbar didn't make it clear who he meant, and we never saw how he acted with Roxas when they were in the Organization to hint otherwise before 358/2 Days (which in itself is rather...what you take it as). I believe it was left open-ended on purpose, to be honest. I guess it would fit more with whoever depending on the idea and progression of BBS back then.

 

[Ulti]

Uh, thanks for proving my point I think. Nomura already said KH was a shot in the dark and had no idea if he was going to make more. So, it is logical that with each new game, he is still just adding stuff as he thinks of it. Ven wouldn't have been in such a development that Nomura would purposely add open ended questions to future characters.

 

[gelandporn]

​

BBS =/= Days.

The actual prequel to KH1 has at least been put into thought since 2005, or when working with KH2, due to Xigbar's own lines mentioned by other people here, as well as the Secret Ending you obtain if you defeat it in Proud Mode. Now, how far they had gotten at that point is unknown, but it didn't come out of left field. Can't trust much what Nomura says anymore, of course, but he did mention the characters' faces were in progress, and at least one was done.

Xigbar didn't make it clear who he meant, and we never saw how he acted with Roxas when they were in the Organization to hint otherwise before 358/2 Days (which in itself is rather...what you take it as). I believe it was left open-ended on purpose, to be honest. I guess it would fit more with whoever depending on the idea and progression of BBS back then.

Not to mention this little nugget:

Ultimania Birth by Sleep Speculation - Kingdom Hearts Insider
I think while it probably referred to Roxas originally, it's as good as retconned.

Though not necessarily. Given what you said and just Xigbar in general (the scars- surely Nomura had in mind how he got them. If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if he had worked out other details of BbS in his head at the time of making KH2, such as Ventus looking like Roxas), it might have always been referring to Ven.

But, yeah, it's ambiguous, so there's not really a "right" way of interpreting it.

 

[loke13]

Re: Is Xigbar talking about Ven or Roxas?

since this game was made long before ven was even created then it was roxas...
not ven. but since now ven existed it will be clearly a retcon and it'll be ven.

Quoted for the truth.

pre-BBS days it used to be Roxas. Now its Ven.

So I guess it was both.

 

[PowerOverNothing]

I agree with what has been stated above. Even when I first played through Kingdom Hearts II, I knew that the creator meant for that whole "Look" thing to be related to Roxas. Since when you first went through the opening, it gave you a intention that Roxas had a bad relationship with the Org. (With the flashback of him leaving and what was said between Roxas and Axel.)

Now with Days out, and seeing that Roxas had good relations with Xigbar during his time there. (Compare him to how he thinks of the other members. Such as Saix and Xaldin. He did have a nice relationship. It's not a baised fangirl opinion.) You can clearly see that it is suppose to be Ventus. Suppose that that fact makes Birth By Sleep and Braig's mind a bit more complex and interesting. Yes?

 

[*TwilightNight*]

Uh, thanks for proving my point I think. Nomura already said KH was a shot in the dark and had no idea if he was going to make more. So, it is logical that with each new game, he is still just adding stuff as he thinks of it. Ven wouldn't have been in such a development that Nomura would purposely add open ended questions to future characters.

Erm, yeah, that was when they had no idea how much of a success it was going to be, which was by KH1. Yet that's not what I'm talking about.

But by 2005 (the release of KH2), or earlier actually, they were already working on the said sequel (not to mention CoM amidst all this), after the initial response: which is also where the actual BBS implications began and was hinted (so they had something in mind, along with the link Grass just posted before me). Being the game after the first (or one of the games after the first), it's understandable that he has to get it together now that it was capable of being able to be a successful series. So it isn't really a retcon when creators still have to plan the plot for the upcoming addition to it. The only problem I have is with Days, which is not only a prequel, but a game that falls right in between CoM and KH2, and yet, was never breathed or mentioned anywhere in the righteous universe at all. And of course, the obvious attempt they pulled to cover that up doesn't help matters.

Unless you think KH2 retconned KH1, I don't know...

 

[Goldpanner]

Now, he was probably talking about Xion. You know, the goldfish thing?? She's bluntly all through KH2 if you look at it with a very open mind!

Srsly, I'm pretty sure it was about Roxas. I think perhaps Nomura thinking about that line AFTERWARDS might have made him go "oooh, that could now mean a Ven and Braig connection... shiny... wouldn't it be cool if Braig was important in BBS... ZOMG MUST DO," but, I am pretty sure the line was originally about Roxas.

 

[huanglulu]

I think Xigbar was refering to days as after i play days didnt see a time where Roxas would show Xigbar that face.

Not to mention this little nugget:

Ultimania Birth by Sleep Speculation*-*Kingdom Hearts Insider
I think while it probably referred to Roxas originally, it's as good as retconned.

Though not necessarily. Given what you said and just Xigbar in general (the scars- surely Nomura had in mind how he got them. If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if he had worked out other details of BbS in his head at the time of making KH2, such as Ventus looking like Roxas), it might have always been referring to Ven.

But, yeah, it's ambiguous, so there's not really a "right" way of interpreting it.

I wouldnt be surprise too that Nomura has the idea of BBS in his head when creating KH2 after seeing the secret ending of KH2FM and hearing that you can fight Terra's lingering spirit as Sora.

 

[AzzurroRainrebor]

Ven...

The ret-con bit, sounds most credible, as game creators often put in tidbits of ambiguous info that may or may not hint at new future titles. Like that demon-thing on Ansem SoD's back could have so been (if not already) something more important (via ret-conning).

As stated numerous times, it could have been Roxas. Then, when BbS was thought of (or whatever), it was Ven.

I think "goldplanner" also presents a good point, I've been saying stuff like his statement since I first joined this site.
Nomura-dono is all like "Ooo, point in the story that could branch off into all types of unpredictable ways and plots..."