California to vote on abolishing death penalty

[Taylor]

Because there's a difference between imprisonment and murder.

imprisonment for life is just as bad as death, in my opinion. i would prefer death to being in a cage forever.

 

[Sean]

imprisonment for life is just as bad as death, in my opinion. i would prefer death to being in a cage forever.

Easily.

I was in jail for a little over two days and I can't even begin to imagine what two decades feel like.

 

[Ehres]

imprisonment for life is just as bad as death, in my opinion. i would prefer death to being in a cage forever.

That's exactly the point.

But that assumes that there's a choice for the prisoner between the death penalty and life imprisonment. Which, of course, there isn't.

 

[Wehrmacht]

imprisonment for life is just as bad as death, in my opinion. i would prefer death to being in a cage forever.

if there's such a need for vindication though, wouldn't giving them a worse punishment be better?

 

[Taylor]

That's exactly the point.

But that assumes that there's a choice for the prisoner between the death penalty and life imprisonment. Which, of course, there isn't.

my point is that both are innately cruel.

if there's such a need for vindication though, wouldn't giving them a worse punishment be better?

let me refer to my good friend sol: "two wrongs don't make a right"

what is it about human beings that forces them to be so OPPOSED to the death penalty. whether you're executing someone or keeping them in prison for life, you're effectively RUINING THEIR LIFE. Whether they're done existing or they're confined to a 10x10 ft cell for the rest of their eternity, they're done living.

(this is all disregarding the idea of parole)

 

[Wehrmacht]

what is it about human beings that forces them to be so OPPOSED to the death penalty. whether you're executing someone or keeping them in prison for life, you're effectively RUINING THEIR LIFE. Whether they're done existing or they're confined to a 10x10 ft cell for the rest of their eternity, they're done living.

(this is all disregarding the idea of parole)

Well, there is always the chance that a person sentenced to life in prison could be found innocent later, or something along those lines. if they were sentenced to the death penalty, they would be killed for no reason, whereas if they are in jail for a few years, we can't give them back their wasted time, but they are still alive and can try to do something meaningful with the remainder of their life that they wouldn't be able to do otherwise because they'd be dead. due to the stigma associated with people accused of crimes and the difficulty of rebuilding your life after being incarcerated for so long i would imagine it to be pretty difficult, but that doesn't make it impossible and doesn't mean they shouldn't be given the chance. I do realize that people spend a long time incarcerated in death row and aren't immediately executed, but the principle remains the same.

If one is as bad as the other, I think giving a criminal a choice to be euthanised over spending their life in prison would be fair, it's not really the same as murder when the person actually wants to die.

 

[Taylor]

If one is as bad as the other, I think giving a criminal a choice to be euthanised over spending their life in prison would be fair, it's not really the same as murder when the person actually wants to die.

Here is my entire point. Thank you, Paolo!


I am not trying to defend the death penalty. But the idea that it's better to incarcerate for life than it is to end a life is absolutely silly to me. To most people, life in prison can even constitute TORTURE as per their own definition. So what about that idea - the idea that you're torturing people over killing them - helps you sleep better at night? Maybe you say that's "justice": punishing them for taking a life. But why is torturing them for life better than ending their life? That is something I don't understand.

 

[OmniChaos]

Well, there is always the chance that a person sentenced to life in prison could be found innocent later, or something along those lines.

As is there a chance a known murder sentenced to life in prison might escape during a prison riot and go on to kill fifteen innocent people.

EDIT:
Perhaps that came out a little pointed. What I'm trying to get at is that people who admit to murdering, enjoyed it, and would do it a thousand times over would be better dead than in a prison, where they could possibly do damage again.

 

[Rydgea]

As is there a chance a known murder sentenced to life in prison might escape during a prison riot and go on to kill fifteen innocent people.

Been watching too many action flicks lately? Assuming you're not joking, it is rarity that prison breaks do occur (of which the percentage of the prison population that does usually floats between 0-2% depending on the year cataloged), and it's hardly ever from high-security facilities where murderers are being held.

Besides the death penalty being a complete waste and marring ethical code, people seem to forget that life spent in prison can actually be used towards productive ends, conducive for society and the prisoner, versus sadistically wanting to extend some stranger's suffering.

 

[Orion]

Not nearly enough of them.

For-profit prisons are bad. They have a vested interest in having as many people as possible be imprisoned. They're totally against any drug-law reform, because it would mean a severe drop in the profits they can reap. That, and they specifically select all the 'good' and calm prisoners from existing jails, thereby keeping the costs down because they don't have to worry about violent, antisocial or addicted inmates. The only reason these prisons appear to be of any 'good' (and I use that term loosely) is because they cherry-pick inmates.

[video=youtube;jxNiNv97ZdM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxNiNv97ZdM[/video]

 

[Johnny Stooge]

Not nearly enough of them. And call me paranoid, but the last thing I want to see happen is a privatized, corporate-own and sponsored prison business sector a la Deadman Wonderland.

Wait what? Wouldn't you prefer prisons to be run in a not-for-profit fashion, similar to charities?

And suddenly I'm discussing prison politics with an Australian.
(Joking. Mostly joking.)

Life imprisonment has worked out for us.

 

[Nutari]

BBC News - California to vote on abolishing death penalty

I'm not a californian, but as an individual I support the idea.

It is completely factual that keeping the death penalty is noticeably more expensive than keeping someone in life imprisonment. Besides that, there have been a number of studies that show that it is a rather inefficient way of preventing crime and that crime rates may even go up after a widely publicized execution. Based on that alone I see little point in keeping it.

There are moral considerations here as well, obviously. imo i don't see much point in killing someone for anything because all it does is satisfy vindictive urges, the only time where it would ever be remotely justifiable is when the person in question has serious mental issues that prevent them from being able to care or learn from their misdeeds and they are proven to be completely incapable of ever contributing anything positive to society ever again (which is a tall order). It negates what should be the whole point of the justice system, which is to rehabilitate people, it can't even be considered a punishment in the sense that they won't be able to learn or apply anything to their lives afterwards because they'll be dead. Is some feeling of vindictive satisfaction worth someone's life?

Thoughts?

I am neither for nor against the death penalty, but I feel it hasn't done much. I think that to a degree, it was used for a sort of fear factor. Nobody wants to die. At least they shouldn't. Regardless, it is expensive, and I feel life in prison is much more effective. Unfortunately all of these decisions take so long to happen. I realize this sentence is a bit off topic but: if they abolish slavery, or if the US as a whole did, would it be appropriate to re open alcatraz to create more prison space? CA has a huge criminal population, and their prisons are too packed.

and along with all of the other things that have been said: life imprisonment isn't cruel if it is warranted. Criminals are forfeiting their right to a free life. You break the law you get punished. I think killing somebody is pretty damn close to forfeiting the right to life- therefore, life in prison.

 

[Shawty]

I'm not Californian, neither do they give death sentences in my country, which I think is a good thing. When someone has commited a murder or so, he/she should suffer for the rest of their lifes for what they've done in my opinion.

 

[OmniChaos]

Been watching too many action flicks lately? Assuming you're not joking, it is rarity that prison breaks do occur (of which the percentage of the prison population that does usually floats between 0-2% depending on the year cataloged), and it's hardly ever from high-security facilities where murderers are being held.

No, just been watching the news. Four inmates broke out of a Kansas county jail a few days ago (they were there due to overcrowding in the prison they were in), and about a week or two ago, a woman broke out of my city's county jail. They were all captured shortly after, of course, but the point is they escaped all the same.

Of course, I am speaking of jails and not prisons, but with overcrowding as it is (plus the process of transferring people from county jails to state prisons), not all murderers are in prisons right now.

I am neither for nor against the death penalty, but I feel it hasn't done much. I think that to a degree, it was used for a sort of fear factor. Nobody wants to die. At least they shouldn't.

The "fear factor" has slowly been watered down over the years, where we now give people a "comfortable, humane" death, instead of deaths that promises pain beforehand. Deaths such as the electric chair and hanging, where the people are made to suffer before death, are more effective in instilling fear than deaths that promise to be painless, such as leathal injection.

 

[Alaude Drenxta]

I think it should be rarely used, but when it is, it should be swift and clean. No drawn out crap, far less money drained into someone we're simply going to kill.

 

[Nutari]

I think it should be rarely used, but when it is, it should be swift and clean. No drawn out crap, far less money drained into someone we're simply going to kill.

Why don't we just do something less humane though? that would cost less money. Heres some rope. You know what I mean.? I am not saying that we should do that but it would cost so much less

 

[King Sora X]

While I am against the idea that California is looking to get rid of the Death Penalty, Celtis couldn't have said it better. California hasn't even used it in a long time, so not like we're losing anything major. Vote for it and be done with it, I say.

 

[Haeralis]

The people on death row already made their choice. They chose not to be a member of society, and because of this I do not support the abolishing of the death penalty.

 

[Oracle Spockanort]

The people on death row already made their choice. They chose not to be a member of society, and because of this I do not support the abolishing of the death penalty.

They aren't going to kill them. They will all sit there and die before they ever get put down.

Since it's not being used, why have it?

 

[Silverslide]

Good. Putting down another human for the death of another only increases the kill count. Does nothing. Just let them rot in prison and wallow in self pity, they are as good as dead that way.